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Politics wasn't involved in the Garland situation.
I'm talking about the politics with Ford and Kavanagh
you cannot, intelligently say, who lied and who didn't in this case, none of us was there, she could be telling the truth or he could be telling the truth...as I said before, this particular case is all about politics.
I'm talking about the politics with Ford and Kavanagh
you cannot, intelligently say, who lied and who didn't in this case, none of us was there, she could be telling the truth or he could be telling the truth...as I said before, this particular case is all about politics.
And you incorrectly saw the proceedings as a court of law.
Of course this case is all about politics. The appointment of a Supreme Court justice is a political process.
First of all, I don't blame you for not reporting it. Women often go through hell when they do.
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that to think politics wouldn't enter into it is naive. It's a political process from beginning till tend.
I'm not sure what I'm saying that's making you think I'm naive to politics. Sincerely. You've said it a couple of times to me.
I had a friend recently, make a public post on Facebook (anyone could see, anyone could respond) asking how many people had ever been falsely accused of rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, etc...could be you or someone you know, tell the story in the comments or simply say "Yes."
She got 9 responses to that post.
Then the next day, she posted a similar post asking how many had been raped, harassed, sexually assaulted etc. themselves. This time she did not ask "you or someone you know." She asked "respond if YOU have." In the first hour she had over a hundred responses. In the first day it went over 300.
Then she started getting death and rape threats by men she didn't know. She is screen-shotting those.
I found her little experiment interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.
I've been privy to untold numbers of sexual assault situations involving people around me, people close to me and people not close to me. I've had some experiences of my own. It is easy, when you are looking at a situation on the news, to simply align your opinion and your judgment with your own biases, whatever they are. Take a side, because it is YOUR side. It's harder when it involves people you know, especially if you are of the stance that one must always believe a victim, yet a friend of yours, that you feel confident about their good character, is the one being accused. That is difficult. What do you choose, your loyalty or your ethics, then?
I suppose it gets easy, if you are the sort who believes that victims usually are lying. You are then relieved of that dilemma. Your friend is innocent. Of course they are!
Personally I've found some comfort in being able to admit that I don't know. I was not there, I don't know. I listen to the victim and withhold all judgement. I would listen to the accused and withhold judgment also...because I do not KNOW. I think it's ludicrous egotism that we all think our own opinion and stance is so crucially important, we must claim to know things even if we don't. In other words, the main problem with presuming an accused perpetrator of sexual assault, innocent until proven guilty, is that it presumes the victim accuser to be guilty until proven innocent, of lying. I prefer to try and hold a neutral position, until I have more information, because I have no right to act like I know this that I don't, let alone to judge other people based on such. So until I can back my thoughts up with something, no one is guilty, and no one is innocent.
What most women do not understand, when they are young, and in college, is that if you don't want to get raped, you don't play games with young men at parties, who get drunk.
Most young women, love to make out, but, for a man/guy, when your young, especially if they are drunk, it doesn't stop there. And that is called teasing, which when I was young, didn't understand that, b/c I thought everyone both men and women felt the same way.
I was molested as a young child, but was very lucky throughout high school, and when I grew older and dated...like I said before, I went to a movie with a date, and he was all over me afterwards out at my car and I took care of that....however, getting back to my younger years, our mother's didn't talk about sex to us, therefore, we didn't know much...and it would be wise to warn your teenage daughters to stay away from making out, especially at beer parties, or with strangers....b/c women, most women can stop on a dime...men, not so much...especially when they've been drinking and they can be very forceful.
I'm not saying it's anyone's fault, but, common sense tells you, if you know your going to a place where people are drinking and they have guns, best to stay away, same with drunken beer parties.....
And you incorrectly saw the proceedings as a court of law.
Of course this case is all about politics. The appointment of a Supreme Court justice is a political process.
no, your deliberately avoiding my true meaning on this....
I am certain, most dems, not all but most, were finding him guilty after Ford's testimony, not b/c he was, but b/c they wanted him to be so he wouldn't be elected...
People when they dislike a political party will grovel at any negative information to prove that they are right, and they don't care to research or try and find out the truth first....truth doesn't matter, what matters is, it enforces their political agenda.
Actually, men CAN stop, if they want to. I know that for a fact. Give men more credit.
yes, they can, but some cannot...and I'd hate to think of the chance I'd be taking with a stranger....sorry, I should have made that clearer. I really hope times have changed with younger mothers and they discuss these situations with their daughters at the right age. Our mothers did not...and we all agree, we were blind and so naive...it was wrong of parents to be so hush hush about sex, and treat it like it was wrong and a disease.
Alcohol and drugs can play some pretty nasty games with a kids head, and I'm talking in their early 20's.
I remember being at one frat party, with 3 other girlfriends, b/c we had a friend who was going to a college near us, so we were invited.
all the boys were drunk and we all felt very uncomfortable at the suggestions they were making, so we left...there were other girls there, with dates, but, we were the only ones without dates...when we walked out, we all agreed that their was a huge feeling of danger in the air. We were glad we left, and went on to some dance nearby.
anyway, I think there are some men who simply cannot stop...if they could, rape wouldn't be an issue.
And you incorrectly saw the proceedings as a court of law.
Of course this case is all about politics. The appointment of a Supreme Court justice is a political process.
I wouldn't vote for Trump with a gun to my head, nor am I fan of Kavanaugh. But if you can't see the moral hazard of what happened, then God help you.
It doesn't matter if it's a trial or a hearing or whatever. When someone's life, career, or reputation hang in the balance, there has to be a standard of truth and proof. Simply saying something happened doesn't mean it actually happened, no matter how many convoluted arguments you offer up. And, in the case of Dr. Ford, there were enormous holes in her story that called her credibility into question. And, once again, I say that as someone who loathes this administration.
It boils down to this. Slander and half-baked accusations are just that, regardless of the political affiliation of the target. If you agree with Dr. Ford based on the political leanings of Kavanaugh, then be prepared for the same tactics and strategy to be used against a nominee or candidate you like.
We used to give a damn about truth in this country. Not spin.
First of all, it was real statutory rape, because as far as I know, a 14 year old can't consent.
I wish you would have reported your situation. I know it would have been traumatic, but people need to be accountable for their actions. And bullies...even the rapists...generally don't stop until someone stops them. However, I also believe in statutes of limitation.
The realistic results of me "reporting." Go to hospital for strangers to examine my genitals after I've just been assaulted (you think that isn't traumatic?) and get a great big hospital bill for my Mom who had no money at the time. My Mom would be saying, "Well that's what happens when you go out and pick up men" nevermind that she drove us there and allowed the men to come back to our house, and went off to sleep with one of the two of them, leaving me alone with the other. The rest of my family likely would have shamed me also. Possibly I may have been removed from my home, where at least I was loved even if it was by crazy people, and put into the foster system where I might have been essentially sold off to a sexual predator for all anyone knows. If you think that kind of thing doesn't go on in the foster system in this country, you're a loon.
Good plan.
Oh, and they would have tossed any evidence on a shelf somewhere, did a bunch of paperwork, and the illegal immigrant known only as "Vincent" (which I guarantee wasn't his real name) would never have been caught. How the hell would he be caught?
Who knows how much school and life I'd have missed, dealing with doctors, cops, courts, and how much disruption to my family's life. Mom missing work and all. Oh and if the cops did in fact find him, his Mexican gang buddies might have a thing or two to say to me, maybe at gun or knife point, about that whole situation, don't ya think?
But hey at least I reported it!
That's the thing with people who just want to take a stance like your opinion matters. It doesn't. You aren't even talking about the same REALITY that people who lived through things actually experienced. Reporting can cause vastly more harm than good. And we have a great big, rather powerful system that has every incentive to keep it that way.
And anyways, as far as I'd learned as of 1993 (mostly from men and boys)--that wasn't rape, and if I said it was, I was just being a tease, got what I deserved anyhow. Report it. You're silly. Psh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
What most women do not understand, when they are young, and in college, is that if you don't want to get raped, you don't play games with young men at parties, who get drunk.
Most young women, love to make out, but, for a man/guy, when your young, especially if they are drunk, it doesn't stop there. And that is called teasing, which when I was young, didn't understand that, b/c I thought everyone both men and women felt the same way.
I was molested as a young child, but was very lucky throughout high school, and when I grew older and dated...like I said before, I went to a movie with a date, and he was all over me afterwards out at my car and I took care of that....however, getting back to my younger years, our mother's didn't talk about sex to us, therefore, we didn't know much...and it would be wise to warn your teenage daughters to stay away from making out, especially at beer parties, or with strangers....b/c women, most women can stop on a dime...men, not so much...especially when they've been drinking and they can be very forceful.
I'm not saying it's anyone's fault, but, common sense tells you, if you know your going to a place where people are drinking and they have guns, best to stay away, same with drunken beer parties.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
yes, they can, but some cannot...and I'd hate to think of the chance I'd be taking with a stranger....sorry, I should have made that clearer. I really hope times have changed with younger mothers and they discuss these situations with their daughters at the right age. Our mothers did not...and we all agree, we were blind and so naive...it was wrong of parents to be so hush hush about sex, and treat it like it was wrong and a disease.
Alcohol and drugs can play some pretty nasty games with a kids head, and I'm talking in their early 20's.
I remember being at one frat party, with 3 other girlfriends, b/c we had a friend who was going to a college near us, so we were invited.
all the boys were drunk and we all felt very uncomfortable at the suggestions they were making, so we left...there were other girls there, with dates, but, we were the only ones without dates...when we walked out, we all agreed that their was a huge feeling of danger in the air. We were glad we left, and went on to some dance nearby.
anyway, I think there are some men who simply cannot stop...if they could, rape wouldn't be an issue.
I do not believe that pretty much any man CAN NOT stop. If a guy who drinks becomes a person who cannot prevent themselves from raping someone, maybe they should not drink. As to the rest? I've never been drunk in my life, and the fact that I don't trust anyone, especially men, with my own incapacitated or inebriated self, is one of a few big reasons for that. Also, I've viewed frat boys and basically the "popular kids from respectable families" circles in any sort of institution as disgusting, predatory enclaves of entitled monsters with no respect for the humanity of other people around them, since I was barely out of elementary school. Whether that was the jocks and cheerleaders of public school, the frats and sororities of college, or the political "old boys' clubs" of adulthood. It shocks me not one little bit that people who have had little suffering and grew up with the silver spoon have no compassion, and I half expect any one of them to be more apt than a regular person to be a rapist or a "mean girl" or whatever. I grew up with their attitudes in my face, this ain't nothin' new. Power corrupts.
Does this mean I assume that Kavanaugh is guilty as accused? No. I wasn't there and I don't know. It would not surprise me one bit though, and I damn sure wouldn't go out drinking with him, or anyone like him.
And this is what I'm trying to point out, too. Do you guys not see the hypocrisy? We are told not to trust men, not to drink with them, not to let our guards down. And then in the same breath, to assume men are "innocent." Be careful, you never know who could rape you! But nah...women lie, guys don't rape women, surely not. Don't trust us! But trust us! How 'bout you guys make up your mind, huh? Or just say the truth. That rape does happen, could happen at any time (if women "let" it) but it really needs to be women's problem, because you are very uncomfortable with men being held responsible for it. It is simply a "thing that happens" due to women's bad choices. Hm?
I wouldn't vote for Trump with a gun to my head, nor am I fan of Kavanaugh. But if you can't see the moral hazard of what happened, then God help you.
It doesn't matter if it's a trial or a hearing or whatever. When someone's life, career, or reputation hang in the balance, there has to be a standard of truth and proof. Simply saying something happened doesn't mean it actually happened, no matter how many convoluted arguments you offer up. And, in the case of Dr. Ford, there were enormous holes in her story that called her credibility into question. And, once again, I say that as someone who loathes this administration.
It boils down to this. Slander and half-baked accusations are just that, regardless of the political affiliation of the target. If you agree with Dr. Ford based on the political leanings of Kavanaugh, then be prepared for the same tactics and strategy to be used against a nominee or candidate you like.
We used to give a damn about truth in this country. Not spin.
I've been saying almost the exact same thing to friends I've discussed this with. When one side uses dirty tricks, the other side will use dirty tricks when it's their turn/time around. And ALL the rest of us suffer for it.
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