U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 09-21-2018, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,366 posts, read 10,555,422 times
Reputation: 13385

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
if you have reasons you didn't like Obama's policies and such, then that warrants an actual debate. Someone would need to verify that your only reason for not liking him is b/c he's black.
“Someone would need to verify...”

I guess you agree with OP then? Because assuming I need to verify my reason for disliking Obama was not because he was black but for policy issues is a lot like guilty until proven innocent. Naw...it was never my job to prove I’m not racist, its always the accuser’s job to prove I am. And since I’m not, that’s kind of a tall order for any accuser.

Besides, if the fact I supported Herman Cain isn’t enough to convince someone then they likely already had their mind made up.

But that was part of the problem. A legit policy debate often turned to supporters of Obama levying charges of racism as if he was the first president with whom people had policy differences. No amount of discussion or evidence otherwise (supporting another black candidate for example) was ever enough to dissuade them their accusation was absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
FWIW, it's suspected that some didn't like Obama simply because of the "black man in charge", let alone doing a good job syndrome.
I agree, plenty of those existed. As for the “good job” that’s debatable but I generally refrain from discussing politics on this forum. As mentioned above when someone wants to accuse me of racism simply for disagreeing I know I’m dealing with inferior intellect and won’t waste my time with it.

Last edited by iknowftbll; 09-21-2018 at 08:55 PM..

 
Old 09-21-2018, 09:05 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,667,221 times
Reputation: 15444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
These sorts of crimes are often he said/she said situations where it's hard to really prove if anything actually happened. Because of this they are notoriously difficult to prosecute, and guilty perpetrators are often set free. It's been said that it's better to let a thousand guilty people go free than let one innocent person be punished, but that leaves a lot of victims without justice in sex related crimes. Should the presumption of innocence apply to sex crimes, or in the interests of justice for victims should the onus be placed on the alleged perpetrator to prove their innocence?
You need to define "sex crimes" as there are some that are as you described and others not at all like you describe.

Guilty or not the stink of accusation NEVER goes away.
 
Old 09-21-2018, 10:41 PM
 
16,773 posts, read 17,910,209 times
Reputation: 24055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
These sorts of crimes are often he said/she said situations where it's hard to really prove if anything actually happened. Because of this they are notoriously difficult to prosecute, and guilty perpetrators are often set free. It's been said that it's better to let a thousand guilty people go free than let one innocent person be punished, but that leaves a lot of victims without justice in sex related crimes. Should the presumption of innocence apply to sex crimes, or in the interests of justice for victims should the onus be placed on the alleged perpetrator to prove their innocence?
Imo everyone should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. The problem is social media and media itself tends to brand people well before the court trial
 
Old 09-21-2018, 11:00 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
4,231 posts, read 2,221,115 times
Reputation: 8239
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Women are more empowered to be able to speak out now, which is a good thing. Things swept under the carpet 20 years ago can be brought forward today.

However, the definition of a sex crime and sexual assault in general seems to be creeping too. Once, the definition required penetration and proof of it. Now, it seems an unwanted wayward hand accidentally brushing against someone is defined as sexual assault by the accused and the lawyer.

All the more reason to ensure the accused are innocent until proven guilty.
The definition of rape should never be restricted to genital penetration.

I consider it to be rape if a man and woman have had consensual intercourse previously and then the man insists on other acts, fellatio for example, especially with ejaculation, on the same occasion or later, if it is against the woman's will.

Don't you?
 
Old 09-22-2018, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
9,077 posts, read 3,069,042 times
Reputation: 5407
Courts Cases are based on actual evidence on not merely hearsay.

A lot of UK rape cases are being reviewed due to the prosecution witholding evidence and in certain cases the evidence even supported the accussed innocents.

Student Liam Allan 'betrayed' after rape trial collapse - BBC News

Liam Allan and Isaac Itiary trial collapses should lead to much-needed reform - The Guardian.

All current rape cases to be 'urgently' reviewed over disclosure fears - BBC News

109 women prosecuted for false rape claims in five years, say campaigners - The Guardian

How many innocent people are in prison after evidence was withheld from defence lawyers? - Metro

Rape evidence flaws may have put hundreds of innocents in jail - The Telegraph

Lesbian fantasist invented 15 rapes and sexual assaults which saw man jailed to get sympathy from girlfriends, court hears - Telegraph

Woman jailed for false rape claim against soldier - BBC News

Police officer was on verge of suicide after false rape accusation as woman who accused him is jailed - Mirror Online

Compulsive liar jailed after 11 false rape claims in decade - Telegraph

False rape accusation 'destroyed life' of Surrey man - BBC News

Teenager accused of rape commits suicide - Telegraph

Mother of son who hanged himself after being accused of rape commits suicide a year later - Telegraph

'Guilty until proven innocent': life after a false rape accusation - Telegraph

Commuter cleared of 'ludicrous' sex assault warns the same could happen to any man | London - ITV News

Dragged through hell by rape police who 'buried' evidence about their 'twisted' accuser: Four men cleared of attack at student ball speak out after officers 'airbrushed woman's interest in group sex | Daily Mail Online
 
Old 09-24-2018, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
6,965 posts, read 2,636,855 times
Reputation: 12947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Courts Cases are based on actual evidence on not merely hearsay.

A lot of UK rape cases are being reviewed due to the prosecution witholding evidence and in certain cases the evidence even supported the accussed innocents.
You killed my thread with a wall of links nobody wants to follow.
 
Old 09-24-2018, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
4,135 posts, read 3,266,877 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
You killed my thread with a wall of links nobody wants to follow.
I followed them as they are relevant to the thread...
 
Old 09-24-2018, 05:10 PM
 
4,142 posts, read 1,693,141 times
Reputation: 13121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
You need to define "sex crimes" as there are some that are as you described and others not at all like you describe.

Guilty or not the stink of accusation NEVER goes away.

Yep. Exhibit A:

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i..._to_expun.html

This is an educator, an assistant principal no less, who was accused by a student of having sex with him. She was arrested and charged, lost her job, had her career ruined, and is still fighting to have her arrest record expunged FIVE YEARS LATER, four years after the student recanted and all charges were dropped.

Mind you, this woman was completely and utterly innocent. All it took was one kid mouthing off for her life to be ruined. All because, somehow or another, there's a rush to judgment.
 
Old 09-24-2018, 08:40 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,667,221 times
Reputation: 15444
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Yep. Exhibit A:

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i..._to_expun.html

This is an educator, an assistant principal no less, who was accused by a student of having sex with him. She was arrested and charged, lost her job, had her career ruined, and is still fighting to have her arrest record expunged FIVE YEARS LATER, four years after the student recanted and all charges were dropped.

Mind you, this woman was completely and utterly innocent. All it took was one kid mouthing off for her life to be ruined. All because, somehow or another, there's a rush to judgment.
I personally know someone who was accused of Child Molestation, fought the charges, was found totally innocent by a jury, lost his house, bankrupted, he AND his wife lost their jobs and were basically run out of town as nobody in the county would hire them...

So much for proving yourself innocent in today's society...
 
Old 09-24-2018, 10:33 PM
 
Location: El paso,tx
1,548 posts, read 601,740 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
These sorts of crimes are often he said/she said situations where it's hard to really prove if anything actually happened. Because of this they are notoriously difficult to prosecute, and guilty perpetrators are often set free. It's been said that it's better to let a thousand guilty people go free than let one innocent person be punished, but that leaves a lot of victims without justice in sex related crimes. Should the presumption of innocence apply to sex crimes, or in the interests of justice for victims should the onus be placed on the alleged perpetrator to prove their innocence?
You cant prove a negative.
The accused shoukd ALWAYS have a presumption of innocence. Its up to accuser to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was committed by the accused. There is no way to do that if the crime was committed 30 yrs ago, and there is no evidence.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top