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Old 09-29-2018, 04:22 AM
 
1,008 posts, read 692,806 times
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It's sad to see people arguing over which condition exists: a lack of skilled or trainable workers, or employers who don't want to pay enough.

The truth is worse than one or the other.

Currently, both conditions exist simultaneously in equal and, appaling, measure.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:47 AM
 
9,780 posts, read 7,599,891 times
Reputation: 23949
Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
It's sad to see people arguing over which condition exists: a lack of skilled or trainable workers, or employers who don't want to pay enough.

The truth is worse than one or the other.

Currently, both conditions exist simultaneously in equal and, appaling, measure.
No. The thing about pay is that there are always jobs in ones desired pay range. I know of quite a few six figure jobs. People are getting paid what they wish. The problem usually comes in when lower skilled workers want waves reserved for higher skilled workers.

Folks, please show me a real example of a job posting for a job that you believe is not paying enough. Then show how there aren't any other jobs in that field that pay more.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
10,744 posts, read 3,473,863 times
Reputation: 12906
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Also due to a labor shortage?
Home Depot here pays part timers $15 an hour, so if your problem is due to lack of workers (as you think it is) it would be on the manufacturers end. And it would be due to lack of pay. There are no lack of jobs right now (at least not in the Chicagoland area) so people are not willing to work for crap anymore!
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,165 posts, read 8,205,097 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
There is no worker shortage. There is a shortage of employers will to pay a fair wage with benefits. Substandard pay attracts substandard workers.
what happened? did you get turned down for a job you're not qualified for. We pay good (65/70K) and I have to train guys to run equipment. it takes forever to find nominally skilled people......
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:23 AM
 
5,966 posts, read 3,193,974 times
Reputation: 15709
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
They are out there, you just arenít willing to pay what it takes to get them.
Incorrect. This is way beyond a pay issue. More pay is simply swapping the same workers around between various employers. It won't create more qualified employees to fill the vacant jobs. If I have 5 jobs and Fred has 5 jobs and Barney has 3 jobs, that's a total of 13. When there are only 10 qualified employees, three of those jobs will be unfilled at ANY amount of money.

Sure, there are plenty of people out there who want the job and money, but they aren't qualified. They have done nothing to get qualified.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,653 posts, read 4,908,830 times
Reputation: 16844
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCZ View Post
As a homeowner, it's increasingly difficult to find a landscaper, contractor, handyman, repairman (appliances, electronics, vacuum cleaners), excavator, IT support person, housekeeper, the list goes on. People don't want to do these jobs anymore. It's going to make things increasingly difficult for an aging population who need help maintaining their homes.
In my area people will do the jobs but many won't pay for them. They think about what they made in their working years and won't consider paying more than that for what they consider a lower skilled job. In my area a construction laborer now makes $30 an hour, a licensed, bonded, insured handyman much more. The 80 year old former engineer won't pay someone more than he ever made to do those jobs.


A neighbor was looking for a cleaning woman. He was shocked they all want over $100 for 4 hours work when a few years ago he was only paying $70.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Durham
1,710 posts, read 2,128,089 times
Reputation: 1738
I've seen several sides to this question. I have worked several occupations over the years.

I did electrical work my first couple of years out of high school, in the 1970's. No shortage of workers then and most people coming into the trade had basic general skills with tools. They had to learn our trade and special tools, etc. but everyone knew how to swing a hammer and select the right screwdriver for a task. Training was usually easier & people sharpened skills as they went along. I have been back in electrical work since 1995. Its getting harder to find Americans with basic skills & can be frustrating to teach someone the same things over and over, then seeing them not be able to reason out how to combine skills, when to do something a certain way, etc. That is part of the reason Hispanics are a large part of the construction labor force. They generally do have the basic skills and can work fairly well. The difficulty is language barriers with many. You sometimes have to have a Hispanic foreman to be able to explain job assignments. Alcohol and drug use are common problems across the board. I worked a few jobs in the mid 90s with about 40 guys in the crew. About half had lost licenses for DWI and had to bum rides or drive illegally. I knew 1 guy who rode 3 others to work. The foreman had a real headache if this guy called in sick. 3 others out too.

I managed video arcades in the early 1980's, when mall arcades were a huge thing. I hired attendants to walk the floor, make change, and simple cleaning. We were selling nothing, only made change to provide quarters for the games. Hardest math a person needed to do was when a kid brought in a bag of mixed change to get quarters. Several employees had trouble figuring out how many quarters to give out. They couldn't add up the different coins and divide it out. Of course we had a calculator and also had a coin counter to simplify counting out large quantities. These were all high school grads and the math was no ore than 5th grade level at most. I started giving a 10 question math test to applicants. Basic questions such as how many quarters in a 10 dollar roll, how many nickels in a 2 dollar roll, etc. All applicants were high school grads but only about half could pass the test. On top of that, many of their applications were largely illegible. Their writing skills were as bad as their math skills. My school teacher mother used to cry over some of the students she tried to teach. She said "what will happen to them?". I later told her they couldn't qualify for minimum wage jobs.

I worked 11 years in customer service for an insurance company. Paper work, data entry, processing payments and checks, etc. Lots of typing in the early days, less later on. Most people I worked with were reasonably competent, with a few exceptions. Most were good "worker bees" at least . Some were not that good at interpreting phrases and terminology particular to our business. It was a madhouse there, the company was dealing with lots of mergers, reorganizations, etc. I came to hate it but I did learn a lot there about systems, using research materials, directories, etc. so it was well worth being there. But I had a hard time when I applied for other jobs doing similar functions. Many of these jobs never required a college degree until the 90's came along. I answered a lot of ads, both blind ads and known ones. I got no response to many and a few letters from others that my skills were not what they were looking for. I had exactly the skills they had posted but that didn't seem to count. I strongly suspect my lack of a college degree was the deciding factor. My coworkers with degrees were getting many more offers, despite my greater experience. You can see from my posts that my writing is reasonably good, in fact better than the writing used by some of these replying to me. So from that side, I scoff at the statement about lack of workers.

My nephew worked for a time at Sears, selling appliances. He overheard a coworker (college student) speaking with a customer on the phone. She told customer they didn't measure appliances in yards, that they measure in inches and she couldn't answer his question. He asked for the phone and talked with the man. They needed a new dryer and he told he the space was a yard wide. He asked if they had dryers that wide or less. She couldn't do the math. He handled the customer and made a sale.
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Midwest
3,901 posts, read 6,834,410 times
Reputation: 6237
Just about every store we enter has a "help wanted" sign. McDonald's, grocery, fabric store, Ace Hardware, you name it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
In the blue collar jobs, yes there is a shortage of workers that are drug free, eager to work, not covered in tattoos and dependable. Then finding someone to do skilled work with actual skill is another challenge.

I am a manager for a small 15 person plumbing company. I can find “helpers” but skilled plumbers are elusive. Which is why plumbers are now making $50 an hour. The good ones have jobs. The bad ones float around to every company just collecting a paycheck. We have tried training, but you either have it or you don’t.
That sounds so very true.

I see many TV ads from Michigan from the Pipefitters Union advertising they will help pay for schooling, pay you while you're learning, pay you more when you're fully qualified.

The older generations with a great work ethic made life too easy for their kids, and they for THEIR kids, and now there are many who think life should be easy and challenges are to be avoided. And going through an apprenticeship program, like any learning opportunity, is not all sunshine and butterflies.

Without challenges and hard times, motivation expires and people become calorie- and oxygen-consumers who do little.
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:53 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 2,086,841 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Incorrect. This is way beyond a pay issue. More pay is simply swapping the same workers around between various employers. It won't create more qualified employees to fill the vacant jobs. If I have 5 jobs and Fred has 5 jobs and Barney has 3 jobs, that's a total of 13. When there are only 10 qualified employees, three of those jobs will be unfilled at ANY amount of money.

Sure, there are plenty of people out there who want the job and money, but they aren't qualified. They have done nothing to get qualified.
You can still get all the 10 year experienced guys you want, if you are willing to do what it takes to get them.
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:13 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 2,086,841 times
Reputation: 4799
If your electricity goes up in price for your business, do you not pay it and start whining about how there is a shortage of electricity?

Labor is just an expense, but companies don’t want to treat it as such.

The biggest problem is companies are too afraid to raise prices when the labor market dictates higher prices and they don’t train enough.

Employers are causing their own problems.
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