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Old 09-30-2018, 09:51 AM
 
4,960 posts, read 1,976,147 times
Reputation: 5096

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Let's expand a bit on trainable workers. We have a detailed training program for new hires. But so many just aren't trainable. Perhaps it starts in school. But I constantly get new hires in my office, had one the other day, who complain the training is too hard. Really? The documentation and reading should take about two weeks. You're being paid to read it. Why is that hard? Because it's not in Twitter format? The OJT portion will take longer because you have to learn by doing and demonstrate you learned it. You actually have to do the work.

Or this biggie: "I don't need to know this to do my job." Oh, and you know that how? You haven't been here long enough to know what the job entails.

Or: "This is useless to me; I don't do "A" in my job." You're still a trainee. You may not be doing "A" today, but your job includes doing "A" when you get qualified to do it. Just because you don't want to do it doesn't mean it isn't part of your job.

It's beyond ridiculous how many think "doing research" means Google something. Who actually think cutting and pasting from a website is writing a white paper. How many don't know how to use a library (how they #### did they get through college). Or how many seem to expect the supervisor to go to the board like their teacher and take them step by step through the problem. Sorry, that's why you were hired to figure out how to solve that problem.

So yes, we will train. But trainable workers are in high demand and not even a blank check will turn untrainable into trainable.
We have went through a lot of people simply because the work environment is too unpleasant. We repair heavy equipment out in the field, payloaders, caterpillars and the like amongst other things. Sometimes you are in the mud, the cold, the rain and sometimes you only have to replace a broken hose or a dead battery and other times you have to wrestle with a broken hydraulic ram or a thrown track on an old Cat. It's a real mixed bag and it WILL be miserable at times but it pays excellent and you're not chained to a desk. You get a nice big intimidating truck to bully your way around in too.

A lot of younger guys don't like the responsibility and the pressure. They run all too quickly. Basic skills are lacking too. One guy I had as a helper did not even know how to use a lever and fulcrum.

LMAO!!!
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
3,021 posts, read 3,834,381 times
Reputation: 3845
Most "employers" don't know how to vet, develop, promote, hire, and mentor people. If you set up your company right, good people will find you, not the other way around. Hire relatives, babysit idiots, close down the bar at night with your people, and hire out of your church only, or "hood", and good people will leave the moment they assess what your outfit really is doing: adult baby sitting.

I ran a moving company for ten years, hired on site for a decade in construction, and even in the boom times had little issue with good people finding moi, not the other way around. These guys also need to go to junior college and LEARN to develop rather than using default incompetent parenting skills. And then wondering what happened.
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:24 AM
 
2,615 posts, read 2,086,841 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Let's expand a bit on trainable workers. We have a detailed training program for new hires. But so many just aren't trainable. Perhaps it starts in school. But I constantly get new hires in my office, had one the other day, who complain the training is too hard. Really? The documentation and reading should take about two weeks. You're being paid to read it. Why is that hard? Because it's not in Twitter format? The OJT portion will take longer because you have to learn by doing and demonstrate you learned it. You actually have to do the work.

Or this biggie: "I don't need to know this to do my job." Oh, and you know that how? You haven't been here long enough to know what the job entails.

Or: "This is useless to me; I don't do "A" in my job." You're still a trainee. You may not be doing "A" today, but your job includes doing "A" when you get qualified to do it. Just because you don't want to do it doesn't mean it isn't part of your job.

It's beyond ridiculous how many think "doing research" means Google something. Who actually think cutting and pasting from a website is writing a white paper. How many don't know how to use a library (how they #### did they get through college). Or how many seem to expect the supervisor to go to the board like their teacher and take them step by step through the problem. Sorry, that's why you were hired to figure out how to solve that problem.

So yes, we will train. But trainable workers are in high demand and not even a blank check will turn untrainable into trainable.
It sounds like your company has not evolved and changed to take advantage of what is available today. People and culture evolve, nothing stays the same. You have to adapt, not fight it.

Plenty of tech companies have learned this, no reason other companies can’t either.

Also, what are you doing to recruit, to find the best people and convince them your company is the place to be, before your competition does? Are you setting up programs with the universities you want to recruit from?

We have a company here that has set up a program with not just the university, but also offers internships to high school kids.

You have to become the employer of choice if you want the best.

Last edited by High Altitude; 09-30-2018 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:51 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,116 posts, read 58,884,596 times
Reputation: 29792
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedwightguy View Post
Most "employers" don't know how to vet, develop, promote, hire, and mentor people.
If you set up your company right, good people will find you, not the other way around.
A long time ago a man I worked for described help wanted ads as an admission of failure.
I still agree with him.
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:56 AM
 
2,615 posts, read 2,086,841 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
A long time ago a man I worked for described help wanted ads as an admission of failure.
I still agree with him.
Absolutely.

If people arenít knocking your door down wanting to work for you, you arenít doing it right.

Recruiting is not a database of keyword vetted resumes.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:59 PM
 
5,966 posts, read 3,193,974 times
Reputation: 15709
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
It sounds like your company has not evolved and changed to take advantage of what is available today. People and culture evolve, nothing stays the same. You have to adapt, not fight it.

Plenty of tech companies have learned this, no reason other companies canít either.

Also, what are you doing to recruit, to find the best people and convince them your company is the place to be, before your competition does? Are you setting up programs with the universities you want to recruit from?

We have a company here that has set up a program with not just the university, but also offers internships to high school kids.

You have to become the employer of choice if you want the best.
Well here's what we have done:


a. We offer paid internships at both the high school and undergraduate level. At the high school level it's to expose young people to the field and encourage them to study it in college. At the college level it's to grow potential employees.


b. We offer both undergraduate and graduate scholarships in exchange for working for us post graduation. Those are competitive to schools around the country. We also have partnerships with several local universities.


c. We offer graduate education to current employees. Go to grad school while drawing salary.


d. We, and the professional society to which I belong, have recognized there is a problem in the pipeline for producing enough new graduates in the field. This is where you need a bigger vision than just your own workforce into the overall health of the sector. So we sponsor training and STEM support to schools down to the middle and upper elementary level. The purpose is to encourage more kids to study math and science in middle and high school, and then follow on in college. If you follow the trends, the percentage of kids studying math and science drops with each grade group to where only a small fraction of today's 6th graders will study a STEM degree in college, and even fewer will graduate with one. And of those who do graduate, even fewer will be prepared to perform at the same level compared to those who graduated with the same degree just 20 years ago.


This is a problem that starts in school and while we can train those who are ready to be trained, we can't go back and provide the encompassing education they should have been getting through school.
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: TX
3,920 posts, read 4,566,696 times
Reputation: 4329
Well, these worker shortages in general never last that long a time. In time there will be layoffs, businesses closing, robots taking over jobs, more jobs moving outside the country, etc.
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX and wherever planes fly
1,453 posts, read 2,266,916 times
Reputation: 1269
There is worker shortages in certain areas of the country and in certain fields. Namely the most prosperous places and the places people left to go to the prosperous places. The trades in general are hurting. (But if you are skilled in for instance plumbing, electrician, masonry etc. you will never be without work) especially in the Sun Belt. I know here in Dallas $20 bucks an hour minumum for brick layers. it was only like $15 a few years back. But, then everyone started moving here.

Also the airline industry is predicting huge shortfalls in qualified pilots. I've heard this from a few friends. My friend is in the pilots program and is an african american female pilot. A rare breed indeed. I'm ultra proud of her.

I work in engineering and it's getting tough.. The good news is if youre in those fields you have lots of choices. But it's getting tough depending. Also restaurants and low paying jobs are having crazy turnovers as folks are able to find better gigs very quickly in this economy.
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:48 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 2,086,841 times
Reputation: 4799
We have plenty of students going into STEM, including engineering.


Quote:
A common refrain among corporate and political leaders is that the U.S. needs more engineers, scientists and other workers with the kind of specialized expertise needed to boost economic growth. And that assessment plays a part in a range of public policy debates, from how to change the nation's immigration laws to how to energize job-creation.

But new federal data suggest that idea is largely a myth, and it raises questions for students who are planning their careers. Roughly three-quarters of people who have a bachelor's degree in science, technology, engineering and math -- or so-called STEM fields -- aren't working in those professions, the U.S. Census Bureau said Thursday.
Quote:
"Engineering has the highest rate at which graduates move into STEM occupations, but even here the supply is over 50 percent higher than the demand"
50% higher than demand. No shortage of students.




Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Well here's what we have done:


a. We offer paid internships at both the high school and undergraduate level. At the high school level it's to expose young people to the field and encourage them to study it in college. At the college level it's to grow potential employees.


b. We offer both undergraduate and graduate scholarships in exchange for working for us post graduation. Those are competitive to schools around the country. We also have partnerships with several local universities.


c. We offer graduate education to current employees. Go to grad school while drawing salary.


d. We, and the professional society to which I belong, have recognized there is a problem in the pipeline for producing enough new graduates in the field. This is where you need a bigger vision than just your own workforce into the overall health of the sector. So we sponsor training and STEM support to schools down to the middle and upper elementary level. The purpose is to encourage more kids to study math and science in middle and high school, and then follow on in college. If you follow the trends, the percentage of kids studying math and science drops with each grade group to where only a small fraction of today's 6th graders will study a STEM degree in college, and even fewer will graduate with one. And of those who do graduate, even fewer will be prepared to perform at the same level compared to those who graduated with the same degree just 20 years ago.


This is a problem that starts in school and while we can train those who are ready to be trained, we can't go back and provide the encompassing education they should have been getting through school.

Last edited by High Altitude; 09-30-2018 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:56 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 2,086,841 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taynxtlvl View Post
Also the airline industry is predicting huge shortfalls in qualified pilots. I've heard this from a few friends. My friend is in the pilots program and is an african american female pilot. A rare breed indeed. I'm ultra proud of her.
Pilots - spend 100-200k getting your ticket and the airlines want to pay you $12-13/hr.

Is there any wonder people don't want to do it.

Quote:
But at the regional airlines where the effects of the pilot shortage are most acute, even management seems to have finally acknowledged that pay matters, as evidenced by their recent efforts to raise starting salaries that paid first-year pilots as little as $15,000 to $20,000.
And yes, the guys at the very, very top make 200k, but that is like telling someone with a business degree, look how much CEOs make, you business guys make bank!
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