U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-21-2018, 03:04 PM
 
2,082 posts, read 792,368 times
Reputation: 4055

Advertisements

There is nothing wrong with the institution of marriage but it is with the people that marry before they know their potential spouse well enough and people that mistake lust for true love and do not understand what making a vow is or what taking an oath means.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-21-2018, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,899 posts, read 646,450 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo-e View Post
That wasn't the question. The question was whether it's *realistic*, and given the high divorce rate, not to mention the number of unhappily married couples, the answer is clearly no.

Maybe when life expectancy was much shorter it might have been.
So, is the alternative to have “til happiness do us part”? What is not realistic is to think that marriage is never ending bliss. What is realistic is hardships, children and health issues. Maybe your vows can have “til cancer/paralysis/impotence do is part”. After 35 years I can tell you there are unhappy years. Yet, neither of us would us take 10 million dollars to leave our marriage.

Do I believe every marriage should stay intact? No, there are bad marriages. But, many are worthwhile when both individuals realize that partnerships come with compromise and selflessness. IMO, most humans understand that living with a me me attitude in society is not realistic. Lowering our standards is not a realistic way to promote a healthier society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Northern panhandle WV
2,247 posts, read 1,744,626 times
Reputation: 4547
To me marriage is like a cup of coffee with cream you pour in the cream and stir and then it is next to impossible to separate them again.
I have always believed that marriage is forever.
I married at 16 he was 18 and have been married 50 years this past September.
Those who marry these days might make the same vows as always but they don't understand what VOW or Commitment mean, so they are just saying the words.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 04:08 PM
 
78 posts, read 13,328 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
So yeah. I'd say "lifelong marriage" is a very realistic goal if more than half can succeed at it.
If we are measuring success by simply not divorcing, then yes. I would measure success by having a happy life. When examining whether something is realistic or not, I would think a person should take long-term happiness into account.

Everyone is different, though. I've always been the sort of person who thrives off change. Some people thrive off consistency and stability, and I'd think those types would be better suited for marriage.

There's also the possibility that a couple could grow and change together. I've never seen this happen, but I haven't seen everything, so who knows. I'm open to the possibility that soul mates exist and I've just never seen it myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Without the long-term commitment part, marriage is reduced to 'extended dating' and children become little more than an 'obstacle to one's personal enjoyment' or collateral damage whenever one party wants out.
Marriage would only make sense if you couldn't divorce. Then, it would actually be a commitment. But most couples give up and divorce eventually after being miserable for long enough. As long as divorce exists, marriage means nothing in my opinion. What's the point of making these vows if you'll simply leave when it gets bad enough?

There are some people who are true to the marriage and would not leave their spouse no matter what. Not even if they committed murder or some other crazy thing. But I don't think this is true for most people who get married. If you know deep down that you'd leave if things got bad enough, then you might as well not marry and spare yourself an expensive and difficult break-up process down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
statistics reflect that each human is far too complex and ever-changing to be binded by a contract telling them who they’re allowed to be faithful to for the rest of their lives.
Yes. And sexual/romantic attraction can sometimes fade after a while. If you stick yourself with one person with whom the attraction has faded, you're essentially going to be missing out on all the happiness and excitement you could be sharing with other people.

If you can manage a multi-decade marriage and still get butterflies and still feel sexually attracted, congrats! You are probably one of those soul mate couples I've never encountered. I want to believe that type of love exists and if it does, by all means, enjoy it for a lifetime. I think we'd all love to find that, but after many years of never finding it, you start to accept that you might only have shorter-term love and that's okay too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arwenmark View Post
Those who marry these days might make the same vows as always but they don't understand what VOW or Commitment mean, so they are just saying the words.
This is exactly why I don't want to marry. I feel like I'd be lying. The most honest vow I could say would be "I will try my hardest to make this work". The truth is that if a partner begins treating me like ****, I will leave, regardless of what I've "promised" them in the past. And I think that's how it should be. No one should get some sort of lifetime pass to be with someone. They should have to earn your love every day--and you earn theirs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,119 posts, read 3,633,578 times
Reputation: 13514
I just don't understand why couples get married if they don't want to commit to a lifetime together? Just live together then if you don't believe you want to commit to a lifetime.

Too many brides these days want elaborate weddings and don't even love their fiances. It's like they are striving and competing with other brides for the BEST of everything on their wedding day, except for their best friend, which is their fiance.

Yes, a marriage certificate IS just a piece of paper but it is a contract. I think it's very sad that marriage has become more like dating and breaking up (divorcing) when things get rough. It seems to be so much more common now.

When saying your vows, for better or worse means just that. Yes, there are certainly worse times included in marriages, but if you love each other enough, you will get through those rough spots.

BUT: If the rough spots include abuse (physical or mental) or infidelity, then the offender can either change, IF the offender wants and loves their spouse enough. If not, then yes, a divorce would definitely be a better option.

Hubby and I just celebrated 40 years of marriage and we've had far more "betters" than "worse". We've had some pretty rotten "worse" but we stuck by each other and came out stronger on the other end. It CAN work if you love your spouse enough. You don't just give up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann View Post
I just don't understand why couples get married if they don't want to commit to a lifetime together? Just live together then if you don't believe you want to commit to a lifetime.

Too many brides these days want elaborate weddings and don't even love their fiances. It's like they are striving and competing with other brides for the BEST of everything on their wedding day, except for their best friend, which is their fiance.

Yes, a marriage certificate IS just a piece of paper but it is a contract. I think it's very sad that marriage has become more like dating and breaking up (divorcing) when things get rough. It seems to be so much more common now.

When saying your vows, for better or worse means just that. Yes, there are certainly worse times included in marriages, but if you love each other enough, you will get through those rough spots.

BUT: If the rough spots include abuse (physical or mental) or infidelity, then the offender can either change, IF the offender wants and loves their spouse enough. If not, then yes, a divorce would definitely be a better option.

Hubby and I just celebrated 40 years of marriage and we've had far more "betters" than "worse". We've had some pretty rotten "worse" but we stuck by each other and came out stronger on the other end. It CAN work if you love your spouse enough. You don't just give up.
Whaa?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Ohio
17,986 posts, read 13,233,625 times
Reputation: 13765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
So taking in the amount of divorce rates every year, is a lifelong contract or commitment within marriage realistic for modern society?
Yes, it's realistic.

All relationships exist to satisfy individual needs.

You as a consumer have a relationship with a variety of businesses for any length of time to satisfy needs, whether its buying food, clothing, a house, a car or anything else you want.

When that relationship no longer meets your needs, you will dissolve it and form a new relationship with another. I recently divorced Cincinnati Bell and married Spectrum, because Spectrum meets my needs and they do it for $380 less per year than Cincinnati Bell.

Personal and professional relationships are no different. You're in that relationship, because you're getting something out of it and when you no longer derive any satisfaction or your needs aren't met, you'll dissolve that relationship and seek a new one.

Originally, State laws were such that you could only obtain a divorce on the following grounds:

1) infidelity
2) physical or emotional abuse
3) other harm like alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, imprisonment and the like
4) crimes of moral turpitude

It's no secret that as soon as States adopted "no-fault" divorce in the 1970s, the divorce rate spiked.

I don't have an issue with no-fault divorce per se.

However, in the event of no-fault divorce, no party should be awarded alimony or child support, and both parties should leave the marriage with exactly what they entered the marriage.

That means if a guy has $3 Million and a woman $10, then the man leaves with $3 Million and the woman leaves with $10. If he owned the house before they were married, it's his house. If they bought property after the marriage, then it has to be sold and the proceeds divided, unless one party wants to buy-out the other party.

If you did that, the divorce rate would dramatically decrease over-night.

Early on, some States like Virginia had laws regarding no-fault divorce. You had to undergo a 1-year separation starting with the date of the first hearing, which might be 2-3 months after it was filed, and undergo at least 3 counseling sessions. If the parties had sex, and they often did, the case was dismissed, and you'd have to refile and undergo the 1-year separation all over again.

Most States have done away with that.

The problem with most people is that they want instant gratification for their needs, and marriage often solves that.

That's compounded by people getting married for all the wrong reasons, which is often related to their need to instantly gratify themselves.

What would help immensely is mandatory counseling before marriage, so potential problems can be addressed.

There is another significant difference, and that is woman today have a variety of options related to career that their mothers, grandmothers and great-grandmothers didn't have. Career often creates problems related to expectations within the marriage, and it may also lead people on divergent paths which result in conflicts ending in divorce.

Divorce isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's better that they divorce rather than be miserable in a relationship that isn't satisfying their needs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
15,145 posts, read 15,198,298 times
Reputation: 10872
Rarely, and if the couple stays together for life, most of the times things are not pretty after ten or so years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 08:30 PM
46H
 
843 posts, read 472,140 times
Reputation: 1590
The 50% divorce rate is a myth.
https://www.thisisinsider.com/what-i...ce-rate-2017-2
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/u...-lives-on.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2018, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,461 posts, read 19,996,430 times
Reputation: 22367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
But they're hardly "the exception" even if 50% of marriages end in divorce, and I believe I've seen some stats that show the divorce rate is decreasing. At 50%, half of all marriages succeed.
The divorce rate decreasing is deceptive, in that if more people aren't marrying, then, naturally, the divorce rate would decrease?

I've heard it too often: I can't afford to divorce him/her, it would ruin me financially. Just the alimony payments alone!

So if you removed the financial considerations, what would that do to the divorce rate?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top