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Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,071 posts, read 5,249,709 times
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Not "Social Justice" as such, but we aren't doing a good job teaching young men about masculinity.

I DO think that it may have to do with the comparative slighting, in some circles of more technical, hands on pursuits.

I also think the internet has a lot to do with it...Kids now are able to find the "darkest of the dark" if they so desire. Remember, NeoNazi's or any other lunatic fringe group is there with open arms.
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Old Yesterday, 10:28 AM
Bo Bo won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Tenth Edition (Apr-May 2014). 

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Location: Ohio
16,441 posts, read 32,279,328 times
Reputation: 12747
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If a teen who had very little knowledge of planes, took a plane and crashed it into restaurant, would people be blaming the planes?

Somehow it's always the 'guns' fault.
Taking your straw man analogy literally, it seems reasonable in that situation that society would seek to limit access to the cockpit of planes, just like it seeks to limit access to guns.
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Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,182 posts, read 18,176,347 times
Reputation: 9945
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If a teen who had very little knowledge of planes, took a plane and crashed it into restaurant, would people be blaming the planes?

Somehow it's always the 'guns' fault.
Well guns are meant for killing, airplanes arenít. And weíre not experiencing a rash of mass killings by airplane, we are experiencing a rash of killings by self loading rifles. I think breech loading single shot rifles will meet the needs of hunting, target shooting and self defense. At most I think bolt action rifles with 5 round magazines. And revolving pistols.

As it is the safety of the people is being held hostage by the needs of hobbyists and thatís not going to hold as most people donít participate in the gun hobby to the extent they think its needs are more important than the needs of their countrymen.
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Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM
 
4,837 posts, read 1,568,024 times
Reputation: 7923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
Taking your straw man analogy literally, it seems reasonable in that situation that society would seek to limit access to the cockpit of planes, just like it seeks to limit access to guns.
They don't need limited access.

They need education re gun safety.

Or are you against education?
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Old Yesterday, 11:33 AM
 
4,837 posts, read 1,568,024 times
Reputation: 7923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Well guns are meant for killing, airplanes arenít. And weíre not experiencing a rash of mass killings by airplane, we are experiencing a rash of killings by self loading rifles. I think breech loading single shot rifles will meet the needs of hunting, target shooting and self defense. At most I think bolt action rifles with 5 round magazines. And revolving pistols.

As it is the safety of the people is being held hostage by the needs of hobbyists and thatís not going to hold as most people donít participate in the gun hobby to the extent they think its needs are more important than the needs of their countrymen.
Generally speaking when a plane crashes, somebody ends up dead. Not true when a gun is shot.
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Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,705 posts, read 643,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
Taking your straw man analogy literally, it seems reasonable in that situation that society would seek to limit access to the cockpit of planes, just like it seeks to limit access to guns.

A better analogy: if there were an epidemic of people trying to commit suicide by slicing their wrists with razors, the libs would want to have tougher razor registration laws.


You can't solve a problem until you figure out its cause.
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Old Yesterday, 12:07 PM
 
3,713 posts, read 3,039,826 times
Reputation: 10079
It's usually a long haul from a point of being just another person in the crowd, to becoming a deranged killer. Most of the gun violence is committed by those who suffer from some form of mental illness, so, I don't see any connection to anything in the social justice realm. If there is a connection to violent behavior and someone's notions of justice, it can be said that most of those who go out to kill as many as they can, have some kind of justice in mind.

I'd think that most people would see the issue of gun violence as a problem of individual failed reasoning, but the gun itself becomes the focal point when solutions are discussed. Leaving us to deal with mental illness as a secondary consideration, simply because it is a much harder issue for politicians to confront, and an even harder one to suggest a legislative solution as a meaningful deterrent.
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Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,182 posts, read 18,176,347 times
Reputation: 9945
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
A better analogy: if there were an epidemic of people trying to commit suicide by slicing their wrists with razors, the libs would want to have tougher razor registration laws.


You can't solve a problem until you figure out its cause.

Iím a liberal and I donít care how many people kill themselves, nor how. You commit the logical fallacy known as an appeal to the absurd. It sounds clever but wonít stand scrutiny.

If you consider gun violence a problem an inherent cause of the problem is a gun.
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Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
 
2,413 posts, read 2,130,462 times
Reputation: 2579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Iím a liberal and I donít care how many people kill themselves, nor how. You commit the logical fallacy known as an appeal to the absurd. It sounds clever but wonít stand scrutiny.

If you consider gun violence a problem an inherent cause of the problem is a gun.
Appeal to the absurd isn't really a logical fallacy though. The razor example given is completely logical.

"If gun violence is a problem, we need to restrict guns." Okay.

You may think it is an appeal to the absurd to then say "Suicide by razors is a problem, so we need to restrict razors." But it really isn't. You MIGHT be able to argue there is a slippery slope fallacy here, but really, the logic actually checks out.

A true logical fallacy is one like a straw man, where a person argues against claim when such a claim was never made.
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Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland
848 posts, read 251,329 times
Reputation: 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I’m a liberal and I don’t care how many people kill themselves, nor how. You commit the logical fallacy known as an appeal to the absurd. It sounds clever but won’t stand scrutiny.

If you consider gun violence a problem an inherent cause of the problem is a gun.
It’s also true that removing guns does not remove violence, since violence is rooted in the behavior of people. England right now is an example of that where, since guns are hard to get, they're having an epidemic of knife violence and now wanting to ban certain knives. Knives, and guns, are tools, devices. Their use is determined by the possessor.

Last edited by LesLucid; Yesterday at 02:21 PM..
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