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Old 11-10-2018, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,944 posts, read 660,807 times
Reputation: 928

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Okay. So what are you going to do about mental illness...because let's face it, the gun lobby hasn't done anything about it/
Since when is it the gun lobby’s job to deal with mental illness? Mental illness is a local issue. Most issues are best dealt with by local and state governments. Endless counties and 50 states can experiment with finding solutions that don’t involve trampling Constitutional rights.

This said, you can’t stop all killings or shootings no more than you can stop all car, drug abuse or drowning deaths. Guns like cars or swimming pools serve positive purposes in society. Just because you don’t personally know or care about this realty, it exists. The vast majority of Americans use their guns properly for sporting, self defense and a check on tyrannical government that you deny is an issue, yet history has proven many, many times. Government agencies( local & federal )do a fairly good job with policing crime. This is reflected in the fact that most Americans feel safe enough not to own or carry guns all the time like in the past when there were limited resources for security. But, our current resources still fall short and it is still necessary that individuals be prepared to defend themselves at home “and” in public.

Solutions to curb shootings/violent crimes lies in public awareness and stiff penalties for committing crimes. IMO, if you use a gun in a criminal act against another human, you get the death penalty. Dealing with mental illness is a difficult task. Unfortunately, we have to protect our rights from absurd regulations like being on aspirin deems one incompetent to own guns. So, the few that cross the bridge to killing others along with themselves will be difficult to stop. Most Americans believe this risk does not nearly outway our 2A right.
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Central IL
13,553 posts, read 7,251,181 times
Reputation: 31413
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If a teen who had very little knowledge of planes, took a plane and crashed it into restaurant, would people be blaming the planes?

Somehow it's always the 'guns' fault.
I would certainly at a minimum be blaming the security around the planes! Do ya get the parallels for guns?
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:47 AM
 
4,862 posts, read 1,580,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
It's an interesting angle.

I think that today's youth are exposed to a great deal more cultural ills and societal horrors at a young (sometimes tender young) age through TV, Cable, the Internet, and Video Games. Think about how many beheadings you watched before you were 30 ? Any ? Today's kids not only see this online along with other gory viral videos but they also play violent games where they shoot real people in a virtual world, they receive extreme pressure to grow up quickly and do the things adults do (sex included) before they are mentally ready. There are more than 300 million firearms in private hands in the USA (maybe more). Is there even such a thing as a public mental health treatment center in the US anymore that is not a jail?

Lump all that on top of the breakdown in respect for authority/police, family, church and the deployment of 10s of thousands into endless wars with no real mission statement in Iraq and Afghanistan and you have the foundations for shooters like in Thousand Oaks.
With the amount of girls raised on video games, watching the same violence as boys, why is every shooter a male?

Boys are being forced to behave in a feminine manner. It's stunting their growth. It's hurting them. The school setting is inherently a 'female' setting: Obey. Do as you are told. Sit still. Behave. Don't fight, ever. Don't be chivalrous, ie, don't ever defend your friends don't ever defend a girl. Be a weakling. Understand that girls get special treatment, you don't. You are an icky boy.

This has been an issue for 20 years now. Reap what you sow. Let them be boys. Let them be competitive. Let them defend themselves. Let them EARN praise.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:03 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,724 posts, read 651,285 times
Reputation: 3502
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
... if you use a gun in a criminal act against another human, you get the death penalty..

Excellent post except for this statement. Making any gun crime a capital offense just pushes the criminal to make his simple armed robbery a murder case too: no extra penalty to get rid of the victim/witness.


Re: gun registration-- just a way for the govt to know who's got the guns when they finally want to come and get them. Is anyone going to commit a crime with his own, registered gun? Only if he's stupid.


Does registration deter crime? Yea, like the potential murderer is gunna be thinking "I'm willing to risk the gas chamber to kill this guy, but--oh-wait! My gun's not registered! I could get in a lot of trouble over that."

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
With the amount of girls raised on video games, watching the same violence as boys, why is every shooter a male?

Boys are being forced to behave in a feminine manner. It's stunting their growth. It's hurting them. The school setting is inherently a 'female' setting: Obey. Do as you are told. Sit still. Behave. Don't fight, ever. Don't be chivalrous, ie, don't ever defend your friends don't ever defend a girl. Be a weakling. Understand that girls get special treatment, you don't. You are an icky boy.

This has been an issue for 20 years now. Reap what you sow. Let them be boys. Let them be competitive. Let them defend themselves. Let them EARN praise.

Excellent post--can't rep you again just yet.


I don't know why Hillary is so upset about losing the election. Didn't she get a Participation Ribbon?
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:19 PM
 
4,932 posts, read 2,198,427 times
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What in the world? Now it's gender and guns?
Peace doesn't need a weapon. It's rather quiet without em.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,062 posts, read 1,814,607 times
Reputation: 13947
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
If a person is extremely depressed, they may try to commit suicide with a razor. The PROBLEM is Depression. The razor is merely the mechanism of acting out their warped solution.

In gun violence, the PROBLEM is some mental illness. The gun is just a mechanism. Removing guns will have no effect on the problem. They will still act out with some other mechanism. Cf- increased knife attacks lately in London.
I agree that mental illness is the root cause of mass shootings. I would build on that foundation to suggest that:

Mass shooters are suffering a neuropsychiatric disorder that affects a specific adult male Phenotype’s ability to metabolize Serotonin.

Neuropsychiatric; as in literal, structural brain damage that is causing a psychiatric disorder.

Phenotype; as in similar genetic profiles causing similar observable traits, appearances & behaviors. The Phenotypical mass-shooter seems to be an adult/late adolescence male who displays disrupted social-sensory processing abilities.

This would imply that the area of the brain affected is the Amygdala; which controls social cognition, is a key player in the processing of fear & not coincidentally; modulated by Serotonin.

The changes in the Amydala from functional to pathological is probably the result of a genetic predisposition triggered by one or more environmental agents. The environmental agent, hypothetically; could be just the result of any-time administration of SSRI’s or more likely; the effect of current/previous SSRI’s in already triggered brain cells.

Fear; is key. Fear is fundamental. “The gun”; is only relevant in that it offers efficient lethality with the most efficient social-psychological impact of; fear.

Without access to firearms; those already afflicted with this neuropsychiatric condition would likely opt for a plan B involving explosives (James Holmes of the Aurora theatre shooting actually said as much). It should be emphasized that once afflicted; there will be no option of thwarted predation: You would thwart the mass-shootings but not the mass-casualty.

Back to fear: Fear is fundamental due to the perpetrator’s own intense fear of social interactions. Fear is fundamental because it’s observable by others & interpreted as Anxiety. Fear is fundamental because SSRIs are prescribed for Anxiety & if not metabolized correctly; can completely erase Fear vs just calming anxiety.

Our social behavior & boundaries, are fundamentally; controlled by fear. We fear isolation, either by restraint or social rejection. The masses are kept from de-evolution primarily by having & exploiting; a healthy sense of fear. Fear of pain, rejection, loneliness, judicial punishment, going to Hell, etc ... Balanced fear is a good thing. A person who lacks all & total fear; is a very dangerous & self-destructive person.

A person who is devestated by their own feelings of inadequacy in society & by society, who suddenly experiences a total lack of fear; will misinterpret normal social functioning as a former threat that must be mitigated while they still can. They will go to locations that have provoked their own intense fear in the past, will provide an impactful amount of victims & therefore they will have conquered fear by turning it against society. There is no fear of personal injury, death or repercussions, simply because there is no fear.

The only available solution is to identify the genes behind the Phenotype, to identify what has changed the amygdala’s cellular function & then, obviously; to not administer psychotropic medications & instead discover ways to treat or at least mitigate the brain damage.

Gun legislation would waste a lot of time & money. How many people right now could be succumbing to this disorder & are writing their manifesto & amassing weapons & drawing diagrams of concert venues, movie theatres or schools?

Minus guns? Anyone of average literacy could be building explosives in about two hours from the time you took their gun away. Not impactful.
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,439 posts, read 6,852,431 times
Reputation: 14507
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
With the amount of girls raised on video games, watching the same violence as boys, why is every shooter a male?

Boys are being forced to behave in a feminine manner. It's stunting their growth. It's hurting them. The school setting is inherently a 'female' setting: Obey. Do as you are told. Sit still. Behave. Don't fight, ever. Don't be chivalrous, ie, don't ever defend your friends don't ever defend a girl. Be a weakling. Understand that girls get special treatment, you don't. You are an icky boy.

This has been an issue for 20 years now. Reap what you sow. Let them be boys. Let them be competitive. Let them defend themselves. Let them EARN praise.


Mister (0r maybe even Ms. -- but probably too much to hope for), you just put the ball up there in the cheap seats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
The school setting is inherently a 'female' setting: Obey. Do as you are told. Sit still. Behave..
In the post-industrial era, this scenario applies to most workplaces as well. Most of us will adjust, but not necessarily submit; and there remains an extremely dangerous fraction of one percent. And the authoritarians have no way to identify them.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 11-12-2018 at 01:03 AM..
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
4,771 posts, read 7,572,539 times
Reputation: 9739
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Something must have changed to increase this style of violence. The guns were always there. They haven't changed.


Is it the frustration of more divergent political philosophies? Is it changing role of men vs women? Is it increasing rate of drug use? Is it lowered rate of male participation in "violent sports?" Is it increasingly liberal indoctrination in our schools? Is it abandonment of the role of family & local community to govt programs? Is it the increasing rate of home runs hit in the National League?--- All (and I'm sure more) are positively correlated with the increasing rate of mass shootings. ..Be careful in assigning roles of cause & effect.

Something has changed. But as you state, it's not the availability of guns. The guns have always been there.

There is no "GUN VIOLENCE", or knife violence, or bomb violence. Guns are just objects. Its "PEOPLE VIOLENCE". It's the behavior of people and their violent response and actions that has changed. That is what has increased. And that's the insidious thing. They can try to control or legislate "guns", but there is no way to control people and their actions. Even the mental health angle doesn't work because there are people who commit mass killings who have never exhibited mental health issues prior to the event.

I don't own a gun at this point. Recent events, though, surely do have me thinking "it's time". The last thing I want is for our political so-called "leaders" to tell me whether I, a hard working, tax paying, law abiding citizen with a family in an increasingly violent world, can own one or not. I believe both parties and their political elite would like nothing more than to dis-arm the "peasantry" populace if they could.

A few things that I will add that you didn't mention that may have contributed to this kind of violent acting out of frustrations are: the wage gap/corporate greed in this country and the increasing difficulty of trying to stay afloat and manage financially with little job security, the liberal attack on religions like Christianity which at the very least supply a multitude of people with a feeling of inclusion and right and wrong, the desensitizing amount of graphic violence in much of our "entertainment" and media, and our irresponsible 24/7 media channels which do nothing but promote division, anger, and distrust in their quest for "clicks" and ratings.

That being said, we all experience adversity and pain in life at one time or another. The true guilt and blame lies directly at the feet of that person who picked up that gun with the intention to harm or take the life of another human being. No excuses.

Not sure what the answers are, but it's pretty sobering when places that used to feel safe: movie theaters, churches, schools, concerts, etc. no longer completely do.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:47 AM
 
4,862 posts, read 1,580,175 times
Reputation: 7965
The left continually harps on how dangerous the world is, death and fear lurking behind every corner.

And to combat this increasingly dangerous and violent world, they want to ban people from defending themselves.

Makes perfect sense.

#liberallogicfail
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
9,932 posts, read 7,201,768 times
Reputation: 18159
I think we can all understand yet condemn when someone has a personal problem with another person and one resorts to violence and he shoots that person. What is much harder for us to understand is when a person uses a gun in a mass shooting to kill people that are complete strangers. It is a form of terrorism like when some fool walks into a crowded market in the Middle East and sets off a suicide vest.



We have also seen murderous rampages in countries that have strict gun laws where the weapon of choice is a truck or a bladed weapon so banning guns in the US will only have those intent on murder turn to other weapons. I don't want to give anyone ideas but what would stop a sick person from getting onto a school bus with a machete? Or someone loading up a truck with barrels of gasoline and driving it into the entrance of a nightclub when the patrons are leaving?



The problem of mass murder is a societal one. There is something that snaps in these killers that makes them think that the entire world is against them, there is no way out and they are going to murder as many people as possible.

People have become selfish, self centered and self entitled and when they fail in life they blame everyone else.

I don't know how we can turn that type of thinking around.
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