Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-09-2018, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,654 posts, read 12,310,989 times
Reputation: 20099

Advertisements

Not "Social Justice" as such, but we aren't doing a good job teaching young men about masculinity.

I DO think that it may have to do with the comparative slighting, in some circles of more technical, hands on pursuits.

I also think the internet has a lot to do with it...Kids now are able to find the "darkest of the dark" if they so desire. Remember, NeoNazi's or any other lunatic fringe group is there with open arms.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-09-2018, 09:28 AM
Bo Bo won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Tenth Edition (Apr-May 2014). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Ohio
17,107 posts, read 38,008,209 times
Reputation: 14446
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If a teen who had very little knowledge of planes, took a plane and crashed it into restaurant, would people be blaming the planes?

Somehow it's always the 'guns' fault.
Taking your straw man analogy literally, it seems reasonable in that situation that society would seek to limit access to the cockpit of planes, just like it seeks to limit access to guns.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,684,533 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If a teen who had very little knowledge of planes, took a plane and crashed it into restaurant, would people be blaming the planes?

Somehow it's always the 'guns' fault.
Well guns are meant for killing, airplanes aren’t. And we’re not experiencing a rash of mass killings by airplane, we are experiencing a rash of killings by self loading rifles. I think breech loading single shot rifles will meet the needs of hunting, target shooting and self defense. At most I think bolt action rifles with 5 round magazines. And revolving pistols.

As it is the safety of the people is being held hostage by the needs of hobbyists and that’s not going to hold as most people don’t participate in the gun hobby to the extent they think its needs are more important than the needs of their countrymen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 10:32 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,882,268 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
Taking your straw man analogy literally, it seems reasonable in that situation that society would seek to limit access to the cockpit of planes, just like it seeks to limit access to guns.
They don't need limited access.

They need education re gun safety.

Or are you against education?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 10:33 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,882,268 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Well guns are meant for killing, airplanes aren’t. And we’re not experiencing a rash of mass killings by airplane, we are experiencing a rash of killings by self loading rifles. I think breech loading single shot rifles will meet the needs of hunting, target shooting and self defense. At most I think bolt action rifles with 5 round magazines. And revolving pistols.

As it is the safety of the people is being held hostage by the needs of hobbyists and that’s not going to hold as most people don’t participate in the gun hobby to the extent they think its needs are more important than the needs of their countrymen.
Generally speaking when a plane crashes, somebody ends up dead. Not true when a gun is shot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,151 posts, read 5,005,776 times
Reputation: 17515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
Taking your straw man analogy literally, it seems reasonable in that situation that society would seek to limit access to the cockpit of planes, just like it seeks to limit access to guns.

A better analogy: if there were an epidemic of people trying to commit suicide by slicing their wrists with razors, the libs would want to have tougher razor registration laws.


You can't solve a problem until you figure out its cause.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 11:07 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,651,130 times
Reputation: 17362
It's usually a long haul from a point of being just another person in the crowd, to becoming a deranged killer. Most of the gun violence is committed by those who suffer from some form of mental illness, so, I don't see any connection to anything in the social justice realm. If there is a connection to violent behavior and someone's notions of justice, it can be said that most of those who go out to kill as many as they can, have some kind of justice in mind.

I'd think that most people would see the issue of gun violence as a problem of individual failed reasoning, but the gun itself becomes the focal point when solutions are discussed. Leaving us to deal with mental illness as a secondary consideration, simply because it is a much harder issue for politicians to confront, and an even harder one to suggest a legislative solution as a meaningful deterrent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,684,533 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
A better analogy: if there were an epidemic of people trying to commit suicide by slicing their wrists with razors, the libs would want to have tougher razor registration laws.


You can't solve a problem until you figure out its cause.

I’m a liberal and I don’t care how many people kill themselves, nor how. You commit the logical fallacy known as an appeal to the absurd. It sounds clever but won’t stand scrutiny.

If you consider gun violence a problem an inherent cause of the problem is a gun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 01:04 PM
 
3,254 posts, read 3,741,996 times
Reputation: 4480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I’m a liberal and I don’t care how many people kill themselves, nor how. You commit the logical fallacy known as an appeal to the absurd. It sounds clever but won’t stand scrutiny.

If you consider gun violence a problem an inherent cause of the problem is a gun.
Appeal to the absurd isn't really a logical fallacy though. The razor example given is completely logical.

"If gun violence is a problem, we need to restrict guns." Okay.

You may think it is an appeal to the absurd to then say "Suicide by razors is a problem, so we need to restrict razors." But it really isn't. You MIGHT be able to argue there is a slippery slope fallacy here, but really, the logic actually checks out.

A true logical fallacy is one like a straw man, where a person argues against claim when such a claim was never made.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland
2,269 posts, read 1,622,195 times
Reputation: 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I’m a liberal and I don’t care how many people kill themselves, nor how. You commit the logical fallacy known as an appeal to the absurd. It sounds clever but won’t stand scrutiny.

If you consider gun violence a problem an inherent cause of the problem is a gun.
It’s also true that removing guns does not remove violence, since violence is rooted in the behavior of people. England right now is an example of that where, since guns are hard to get, they're having an epidemic of knife violence and now wanting to ban certain knives. Knives, and guns, are tools, devices. Their use is determined by the possessor.

Last edited by LesLucid; 11-09-2018 at 01:21 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top