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Old 11-10-2018, 03:01 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 837,389 times
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As far as Braves that word originated in France and Spain not Native Americans. Chief originated from Latin and Old French. It's Europeans who described native warriors as braves and their leaders as chiefs and called them "Indians". Those names are not Native American so in my opinion not racial slurs. But I am not Native American so I don't know where their grievance came from.

 
Old 11-11-2018, 07:11 AM
Status: "if UNTHAW is a word ..i want to UN-AGE ," (set 11 days ago)
 
17,313 posts, read 22,376,763 times
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this can be a minefield....

when my son was in school...he would ask me about the different words and stereotypes...
things have changed from when I grew up... I asked what his view was of different ethnic groups..
the Indians- he said they looked mythical, tough as nails one with nature very proud people....yes he got some of these views from tv's and film...but overall it was positive.... I also explained to him how they were mistreated in the 1800's (concentration) and killing them when they defended their land against settlers..

then we got to different ethnic.. blacks... I also explained slavery and background on how they were mistreated.

and we discussed words never to say …. like the "n" word...that can instantly get you expelled and me fired from a job and be called a racist..

then he asked me.... if it's so OFFENSIVE then why do they call each other that word?? and why is it in rap/hip hop songs??
in fact in high school his black classmates would address him as the N word ...it seemed to be a term of endearment...they call each other that and close friends.

I just reinforced that he does not use that word....
 
Old 11-11-2018, 08:17 AM
Status: "Let it snow" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,329 posts, read 20,283,669 times
Reputation: 13456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
I got a tad confused at the mention of the Boston Braves, having caught a couple of ball games in Atlanta when on vacation, so I turned to Google, and found that the Boston Braves had morphed into the Atlanta Braves.
With a long stopover in Milwaukee.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 09:01 AM
 
6,212 posts, read 3,322,525 times
Reputation: 12615
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
For the point of this conversation, I'm setting aside "Redskins" because its use as a racial slur is a different conversation.

I'm hearing (mostly from the far left) that virtually ALL team names related to that culture is racist. But what is so bad about a team named the Chiefs (or something similar). I don't understand why that would be anymore offensive to a Native American than say, the "Cowboys" are to some folks in Wyoming or "Mariners" are to boaters.

I'm genuinely curious what is offensive about this. I would like for someone who does feel they are offensive to explain it to me. Maybe it is super obvious and I'm just missing it, but I just don't get it.
Only a Native American can answer this.

It is not up to those uttering terms describing others to decide whether they are offensive to those other people.

I'm not a Native American, so can't say. Neither can anyone else who isn't a Native American. But I respect what others say is offensive to them, when describing who and what they are.

The question is: Why would people insist on calling other races by a term that the other race finds offensive? That is the question.

It's just a name of a sports team. If it's offensive to Native Americans, change it. It's not a big deal.

White people sometimes can't understand this, because there is no reciprocal insulting term for them. They simply have no experience running across that. There is no sports team referring to white skin to infer a fighting sports team that is insulting to whites. And there never will be.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 09:05 AM
 
Location: NY in body, Mayberry in spirit.
2,588 posts, read 1,653,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Right - and you aren't the beholder that counts in this case...so your opinion is irrelevant. Thanks for playing.
His opinion is irrelevant? Because YOU say so? Sorry, but your own irrelevance voids your opinion.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 09:56 AM
 
2,166 posts, read 383,867 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Only a Native American can answer this.
What percentage would you say should answer this? I am only 12-something percent Native American. Perhaps one that at least 50% carries more weight in answering.

The First Amendment legally allows for things that are are racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and blasphemous but that are morally and ethically questionable. That said, it is hard to express yourself in a way that isn't considered offensive to at least 1 group of people. Where one draws the line between not expressing yourself in a manner out of courtesy and out of being a P.C. or SJW is blurred.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,207 posts, read 11,613,425 times
Reputation: 17439
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
For the point of this conversation, I'm setting aside "Redskins" because its use as a racial slur is a different conversation.

I'm hearing (mostly from the far left) that virtually ALL team names related to that culture is racist. But what is so bad about a team named the Chiefs (or something similar). I don't understand why that would be anymore offensive to a Native American than say, the "Cowboys" are to some folks in Wyoming or "Mariners" are to boaters.

I'm genuinely curious what is offensive about this. I would like for someone who does feel they are offensive to explain it to me. Maybe it is super obvious and I'm just missing it, but I just don't get it.
They're no more offensive than naming a sports team after Steve Klein. You should really ask permission. In my state, that's the law. The local tribes have to sign off on Native themed team names. The high school I went to was the Warriors. The local tribes voted and gave explicit permission for the team to continue using "Warriors" as the team name, and native themed logos. Any time they come up with a new image, they submit it to the tribal councils for approval. As long as it's tasteful, there is never a problem.

Native kids attend the high school and play on the team. It's a source of pride for them, kind of like your kids attending Steve Klein High. If you were depicted as a toothless idiot, it would be offensive. If the team name was the Steve Klein High School Morons, it would be offensive. If you're good with the images and team name, there's nothing offensive about it.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,306 posts, read 9,087,497 times
Reputation: 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
They're no more offensive than naming a sports team after Steve Klein. You should really ask permission. In my state, that's the law. The local tribes have to sign off on Native themed team names. The high school I went to was the Warriors. The local tribes voted and gave explicit permission for the team to continue using "Warriors" as the team name, and native themed logos. Any time they come up with a new image, they submit it to the tribal councils for approval. As long as it's tasteful, there is never a problem.

Native kids attend the high school and play on the team. It's a source of pride for them, kind of like your kids attending Steve Klein High. If you were depicted as a toothless idiot, it would be offensive. If the team name was the Steve Klein High School Morons, it would be offensive. If you're good with the images and team name, there's nothing offensive about it.
Seems fair.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 12:17 PM
 
Location: State of Denial
1,708 posts, read 798,593 times
Reputation: 8846
I've heard that the Washington Redskins are going to change their name because of the negative connotation of the word. From now on, they'll just be called the Redskins.


Badda-boom.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 12:56 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
18,252 posts, read 17,408,712 times
Reputation: 30565
I never understood it but I'm not Native American. One town that I know of changed its high school's team name from Redskins. The school committee said they had heard from Native Americans that it was offensive. I would have liked to hear more evidence than that because it sounded as though they just voted to change it on a whim.

The team names are a tradition and no one really takes them literally. If people weren't proud of the "Redskins" or the "Indians" or the "Warriors" then they wouldn't have named their teams after them in the first place. Do other countries do this? Change the names of things as times change? Maybe they do. I am just not in favor of all these name changes and I think people could make better use of their time and energy. However, if the actual people who are being named find it offensive, then it might be the way to go.
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