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Old 11-14-2018, 11:52 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,746 posts, read 21,918,807 times
Reputation: 45013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
According to conservatives, yes. They also want to eliminate public schools by slowly defunding them and giving vouchers to the wealthy for private schools.
Yes. Privatizing everything and dismantling the government, as we have known it following the FDR administration, is a priority among conservatives, and in particular, of this newer breed of "Trumpian" partisans.

 
Old 11-14-2018, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
2,713 posts, read 1,039,250 times
Reputation: 5447
I'm not sure what the question or the alternative is here -- were they just supposed to let their house burn down in solidarity with the little people or something?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
According to conservatives, yes. They also want to eliminate public schools by slowly defunding them and giving vouchers to the wealthy for private schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Yes. Privatizing everything and dismantling the government, as we have known it following the FDR administration, is a priority among conservatives, and in particular, of this newer breed of "Trumpian" partisans.
Isn't the whole point of this forum to differentiate it from the robotic partisan babble of the Politics and Other Controversies thread?
 
Old 11-15-2018, 12:17 AM
 
6,622 posts, read 1,607,886 times
Reputation: 4772
I remember learning about how there were numerous fire depts back in the turn of the century, when a structure fire happened, they would all race to get their first, many times, they all brawled in the street, to determine who would get to fight the fire!
 
Old 11-15-2018, 12:27 AM
 
Location: South Africa
41 posts, read 16,180 times
Reputation: 126
Its the stupid and/or poor that make these essentially useless people rich and famous. If the common man feels their essential services are being impacted then, as the saying goes - STOP MAKING STUPID PEOPLE RICH AND FAMOUS.
 
Old 11-15-2018, 01:01 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,549 posts, read 11,577,585 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
How are we going to stop rich people from taking advantage of their wealth?

Make it illegal to hire their own security/fire fighters? Make it illegal for them to send their children to expensive, private schools? Make it illegal for them to fly an ill loved one half way around the world to access the best physician they can find?

Where would you draw the line on how the rich are allowed to spend their money?
Where do we draw the line? If there is one fire hydrant and two houses are on fire, one has to rely on the municipal fire department and the other is serviced by a private firefighting firm, who gets first dibs on the hydrant? Should the quality of a child's education depend exclusively upon the wealth of his parents? It wouldn't be quite so bad if the rich went to the best schools and the rest of our citizens were able to send their kids to schools that were at least adequate but that's not what's happening, some of our schools are atrocious with abysmal graduation rates and very large class sizes. And I wouldn't begrudge a rich person flying off to the best medical facility in the world if the rest of us had access to decent healthcare that was affordable. But the differences are stark and the reality is brutal for many of the people in this country, people who get up every day and go to work and try to make a better life for themself and their family but never get ahead enough to even go on a vacation or hire a tutor for their kid who is struggling in school.

Maybe the wealthy should think about the long game, how many years will people sit by silently while the rich get richer and the rest of the country struggles to make ends meet? Maybe they should do more than sign footballs for their fans or whatever and donate back to their communities.
 
Old 11-15-2018, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
7,291 posts, read 2,282,055 times
Reputation: 9983
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
As multiple devastating wildfires raged across California, a private firefighting crew reportedly helped save Kanye West and Kim Kardashian’s home in Calabasas. The successful defense of the $60 million mansion is the most prominent example of a trend that’s begun to receive national attention: for-hire firefighters protecting homes, usually on the payroll of an insurance company with a lot at risk.

Firefighters are consistently ranked the most beloved public servants because they treat everyone equally.
But if we allow firefighting to become a two-tiered system (with one tier for the elite and another tier for everyone else), then that threatens the democratic-republican ideal of everyone contributing their fair share for the greater needs of the commonwealth.

For some - including many firefighters from municipalities - protection from a deadly wildfire isn't something that some neighbors should be able to buy when others can’t.

Is this a story of the ramifications of economic disparity in this country?

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ighting/575887
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...est-of-us-burn

The public fire-fighting departments of today got their start as privately-operated crews, funded by homeowner's insurance companies. If you had insurance with such a company, they would send their fire-fighters to your house, if it caught fire. If you didn't have insurance with one of those companies, you were out of luck.

Eventually, some insurance companies saw the advantage of consolidating their crews with those of other companies. Later, cities took them over and made their services available to all in their coverage areas. Public police departments started in a similar way, in Europe. Wealthy landowners hired game wardens to keep poachers off their properties. The same type of consolidation into larger police forces and then converting them into governmental agencies followed.

Will our society regress to that time, when such protection was available only to the rich? I should point out that earlier in my life, ambulance rides were a governmental service, free of charge, like police and fire protection. But no more. Now ambulance service is very expensive, even though it is run by the Fire Dept. You can buy an annual subscription, by paying an up-front fee, for emergency medical transport and paramedical care. You can even buy a much more expensive subscription, for emergency air transport. With this precedent, what's to keep fire-fighting services from charging homeowners for a house call? It seems like it might become the next step in squeezing even more money out of people whose finances are already under siege.

Last edited by Steve McDonald; 11-15-2018 at 01:24 AM..
 
Old 11-15-2018, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,555 posts, read 20,136,950 times
Reputation: 22572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I can't say I disagree, if I had a 60 million dollar home I would take steps to protect it also.

Probably with a built in fire fighting system.
If I had the kind of money these people have I'd do everything in my power to make it as fireproof as possible, with no wooden construction whatsoever. Thick reinforced concrete walls and roof, just like the way they build houses in Mexico. Yes, the windows might get blown out, but at least I'd have a home to come back to. Just put new windows in and new furnishings!

I'm not surprised at all about a 2-tier system as doesn't that work the same with streets, more well-paved streets in the tonier areas of our cities? And if there's a murder in a rich area of town, you can well believe that murder is going to get solved ASAP, every homicide detective working the case. Get murdered in the poor side of town, the murder may never get solved.
 
Old 11-15-2018, 03:21 AM
 
4,096 posts, read 1,657,542 times
Reputation: 12977
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
As multiple devastating wildfires raged across California, a private firefighting crew reportedly helped save Kanye West and Kim Kardashian’s home in Calabasas. The successful defense of the $60 million mansion is the most prominent example of a trend that’s begun to receive national attention: for-hire firefighters protecting homes, usually on the payroll of an insurance company with a lot at risk.

Firefighters are consistently ranked the most beloved public servants because they treat everyone equally.
But if we allow firefighting to become a two-tiered system (with one tier for the elite and another tier for everyone else), then that threatens the democratic-republican ideal of everyone contributing their fair share for the greater needs of the commonwealth.

For some - including many firefighters from municipalities - protection from a deadly wildfire isn't something that some neighbors should be able to buy when others can’t.

Is this a story of the ramifications of economic disparity in this country?

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ighting/575887
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...est-of-us-burn

No. It's not any different than hiring security guards in addition to regular police protection.

It's a simplistic, zero-sum argument that makes no sense. The public firefighting force would not be one man larger than what it already is, and there's no proof that hiring a private firefighting team would have affected the public efforts one whit.

In truth, what annoys people is that the Kardashian mansion didn't burn down while others did. It's really that simple. I mean, heck, you might as well get angry that people pony up to send their kids to private schools.

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 11-15-2018 at 03:32 AM..
 
Old 11-15-2018, 03:45 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,888 posts, read 1,229,552 times
Reputation: 6957
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Is this a story of the ramifications of economic disparity in this country?
That's a pretty big stretch to make.

Ever use uber, postmates, door dash, uber eats, or lyft? Congratulations, you just hired a "private" driver or shopper to get your stuff. This is no different.

You can hire a person to do anything for you so long as you have the money. The rich have every right to utilize every resource at their disposal to protect their property.

And nothing said they were "better" firefighters, just that they were private ones. Your butt might be out there fighting the fire against her house too if you could get on a Kardashian payroll. She could charge those guys six figures each and not lose sleep.
 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NYUSA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way.
6,784 posts, read 1,974,598 times
Reputation: 1666
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Where do we draw the line? If there is one fire hydrant and two houses are on fire, one has to rely on the municipal fire department and the other is serviced by a private firefighting firm, who gets first dibs on the hydrant? Should the quality of a child's education depend exclusively upon the wealth of his parents? It wouldn't be quite so bad if the rich went to the best schools and the rest of our citizens were able to send their kids to schools that were at least adequate but that's not what's happening, some of our schools are atrocious with abysmal graduation rates and very large class sizes. And I wouldn't begrudge a rich person flying off to the best medical facility in the world if the rest of us had access to decent healthcare that was affordable. But the differences are stark and the reality is brutal for many of the people in this country, people who get up every day and go to work and try to make a better life for themself and their family but never get ahead enough to even go on a vacation or hire a tutor for their kid who is struggling in school.

Maybe the wealthy should think about the long game, how many years will people sit by silently while the rich get richer and the rest of the country struggles to make ends meet? Maybe they should do more than sign footballs for their fans or whatever and donate back to their communities.
These are serious questions.

Indeed, where do we draw the line?

Here's an example:

Quote:
Firefighters in rural Tennessee let a home burn to the ground last week because the homeowner hadn't paid a $75 fee.

Gene Cranick of Obion County and his family lost all of their possessions in the Sept. 29 fire, along with three dogs and a cat. ...
No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn - US news - Life | NBC News
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