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Old 11-16-2018, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Phila Pa
2,559 posts, read 1,801,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
Yes. Pay them what they are worth.

Top tier college sports, particularly football and to a lesser degree men's basketball, is probably the closest thing we have to slavery today.
Slavery? BS.
Tell you what, lets end the scholarships, pay them 100k a year. Of course they would have to be enrolled as full-time students meaning they pay tuition and other costs, as well as pay taxes on their earnings. Hows that work out for them?

No to paying student athletes, in fact I want to see and increase in scholarship money made available for other sports.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,025 posts, read 1,984,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/e...202272034.html

Interesting stance, as a former collegiate student athlete I know very well that many small schools canít afford to pay their players.

While I understand the unfairness of broke college students bringing in tons of money for the school, I think at the end of the day the scholarship itself is worth a lot so long as you finish your education in a marketable degree.
i graduated electrical engineering from a d-1 mid-atlantic university. during march-madness my school happen to make it to the sweet-sixteen in my hometown of boston. i was planning to travel with them to root them on but i had a engineering lab mid-term so i couldnt go. there were no engineers on the basketball team. i guess they select majors where they can write mid-term papers on the road which means no physical labs (anything science, engineering, computer, med, ... relateted); since, they have to be 4 different cities usually in different regions in the country in that 5 week period when most students are in the library cramming.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:22 AM
Status: "True liberal" (set 9 days ago)
 
3,853 posts, read 1,724,217 times
Reputation: 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
That's true to an extent for Football and Basketball, sometimes, but the majority of sports, it isn't. Think about all the programs at big conference schools: Men and Womens Soccer, Swimming, Diving, Track, LaCrosse, etc..
Sure but those athletes are also students. They participate in university life. Football and basketball deform the university. The athletes in those sports, at the creme de la creme sports schools, are not students. Generally the free educations they get are worth how much they paid for them: nothing.

On top it, these athletes are cheated out of the money they bring into their schools. The money goes to the Nick Sabans, Brian Kelleys, etc. No one watches Ohio State or Georgia to see their coaches stomp up and down the sidelines. They watch to see great athletes make great catches or baskets.

Or the money goes to other sports that had nothing to do with bringing it in. Meanwhile, the athletes get punished if the get so much as a penny.

The situation this creates is like an open wound exposed to human waste. It's corruption waiting to happen. Agents, sneaker companies, Louisville strippers and whores. The skill of these slimes far surpasses that of the keystone cops watching them.

This is what these colleges lower themselves to. For this reason alone it should be stopped.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:36 AM
 
49,282 posts, read 39,739,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/e...202272034.html

Interesting stance, as a former collegiate student athlete I know very well that many small schools can’t afford to pay their players.

While I understand the unfairness of broke college students bringing in tons of money for the school, I think at the end of the day the scholarship itself is worth a lot so long as you finish your education in a marketable degree.
The big problem you're going to run into there is that the only sports the schools are REALLY making big money over are mens football and mens basketball with perhaps a rare outlier here or there.

That means if you pay those players their commensurate worth, then you're either not paying the wrestling team, womens soccer team etc. much if anything since those programs generally lose money.

That then gets you into Title IX violation territory for not treating men and women equally.

Other considerations would be:
1) as mentioned they get free education.
2) they get a lot of other perks as an athlete if on the aforementioned top programs as major contributors.
3) future opportunities in business, coaching etc. due to name recognition, association with program
4) developmental chance to go pro
5) Greatly lowered admission standards

Last edited by Mathguy; 11-16-2018 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:54 AM
 
2,433 posts, read 2,150,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
Slavery? BS.
Another person whose eyes seem to skip over "the closest thing we have".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
Tell you what, lets end the scholarships, pay them 100k a year. Of course they would have to be enrolled as full-time students meaning they pay tuition and other costs, as well as pay taxes on their earnings. Hows that work out for them?
Why arbitrarily pick 100k per year? Why not pay them what they are worth. For some, it is a good bit less than that. For some, way more.

But to answer your question as to "how's that working out for them"... they would all be better off financially making $100k per year and then pay for school out of pocket than their current setup.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:03 PM
 
49,282 posts, read 39,739,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
I said the closest thing we have to slavery (ie... if you want to be a football player, you don't really get a choice of when you get to start making money. even though the free market would dictate your worth to be 6 or 7 figures annually).

The University of Florida made $60m+ off of Tim Tebow. If he had made $100 off his own face... not even on the football field.... he'd have been ruled ineligible. If a computer science student at Florida wrote an app and posted it in the app store, they'd get to keep the money and get this... could keep on taking their Calculus class.

I didn't say it was slavery; I said it was the closest thing we have to slavery.

And as you said... free food, housing. Just like slaves. Have to follow very strict rules and if you deviate from them punishment can be harsh, sometimes physical.

There are more similarities than one may care to wish.

If you think they have a "choice" why don't you also give them a choice to be paid what the market deems their fair value to be... you know... like almost every other person in the country gets to do. Let's see how many elect to play for a tuition voucher instead of $500,000 cash.

And if you want to tear down statues of white men in the south who have profited off the backs of African-American labor, why not start with Alabama coach Nick Saban?
Even mentioning "closest thing to" with regards to slavery pretty much undercuts your entire argument with it's gross hyperbole.

For example, enlisting in the military is vastly closer to slavery.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:22 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,025 posts, read 1,984,366 times
Reputation: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
...
College athletes are compensated, they get college, either a partial, no, or full scholarship. If they do not like it, they are free not to accept the offer.

If they start treating college like some minor league, that is exactly what it will become, and its popularity will dwindle as there is only room for one professional league in the respective sport. When people start viewing players not as college athletes, but as minor league players, that will mark the end of their popularity, just my opinion.

...
nba has a rule that u.s.a. (european and chinese players have no age restriction) born players are eligible to play 1 year after their high school graduation.
for the nfl its 2 years.
mlb and nhl have no age restrictions since most players forego college (many times not graduating high school) to be professional minor league players.
notice how march-madness and bcs are big deals and college world series and hockey tournament are are not televised on broadcast t.v.
also, notice that the minority-majority leagues are the ones that place such restrictions.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Georgia
3,556 posts, read 1,239,851 times
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No, they are already on scholarship.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,466 posts, read 6,890,275 times
Reputation: 14563
Well, as stated previously, I want to a school (Penn State) that tried to fight the popular image of "exploitation", and was severely (and unnecessarily) pilloried in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky scandal of 2011.

I don't think an "outsider" who hasn't lived in the semi-isolated atmosphere of Happy Valley can fully understand this; a lot of us were at least partially exposed to the football program and its relationship with the handful of fraternities known as "jock houses", (as well as many other venues).

Speaking as one who had his share of exposure to the darker shades of what happens in locker rooms as a junior high-schooler, it suprised me that the whistle wasn't blown on Sandusky's phony "Second Mile" charity a lot sooner. And the resentments between Head Coach Joe Paterno and both the NCAA and ESPN were no secret. but the situation was complicated to the point where any attempt at change would have drawn criticism from one side or another.

So when the scandal broke, it wasn't hard for a lot of us to recognize that the harshest, and most aggressive criticism was coming from specific constituencies with an axe to grind. The "Sandusky scandal" had to be spun into the "Penn State scandal", for journalistic and political reasons.

The special pressures faced by college athletes have been documented since Sidney Buchman wrote the screenplay for Saturday's Hero back in 1951, and a lot of the abuses have been addressed. But this is simply not enough in the eyes of a small, Absolutely Politically Correct minority.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 11-16-2018 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,025 posts, read 1,984,366 times
Reputation: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
I don't think it could be a system where you just pay the start athletes in the popular sports but rather you have to pay them all. That means every swimmer, volleyball, tennis, golf, rowing, track and field, soccer, diver, etc. which means every sport will have to live with a lot less in the way of facilities and staff.
...
+1; its covered under title ix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
First, it needs to be recognized that only two sports -- football and, in a smaller number of schools, basketball, generate any substantial amount of revenue. And at many of the major colleges, revenues from the football program subsidize all the other sports. And it needs to be recognized as well, that hundreds of smaller schools outside the prestigious NCAA Division 1 also sponsor athletic programs; the popular stereotype applies only in the case of a small minority of the overall student/athlete population.

...
there are more basketball schools than football schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
bonus questions:
are there any all male or all female colleges or universities in division-1 (would probably make scheduling very hard for the athletic director) ?
are there any d-1 colleges that dont have a basketball team (i know several have disbanded their football programs due to cost like several in the colonial athletic association) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
points, i remember this made headlines because during the last recession the governor of connecticut asked state employees (including professors at uconn) to take a pay cut except jim calhoun refused:
Connecticut Huskies coach Jim Calhoun gets into heated exchange over salary

his rationalization was that the mens basketball team brought in $8 million in revenue to the general fund for the school (including dormatories, teaching hospitals, science labs, scholarships/grants, ...) from tv, ticket sales and merchandise so his $5 million contract was worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbusboy8 View Post
They're ALREADY paid with an education! Besides, we have enough pro teams already---who kneel and diss our Flag and National Anthem. All we need is paid college players doing the same. On the other hand, if you paid college athletes, Harvard, Yale, and colleges with powerful, super wealthy, alumni, and HUGE endowments will be able to buy the very best players, and the Alabama's, Clemson's, Ohio State's and Notre Dame's of the world will no longer dominate college football. That might be a good thing!
the charter for the patriot league and ivy league prevent student-athlete scholarships. most only provide need-based grants for their student body.

Last edited by stanley-88888888; 11-16-2018 at 01:14 PM..
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