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Old 11-16-2018, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, AUSTINtx
3,471 posts, read 5,120,590 times
Reputation: 2056

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46H View Post
Why is it ok not to be paid for your talents and skills?

The idea that a "scholarship" is a fair trade is nonsense. As a high school student, you are forced to sign a contract without representation.

Wait are you saying that prospective student athletes wanting to sign are barred from hiring an agent/lawyer to look over the contract?





Quote:
Originally Posted by 46H View Post
The 4 year scholarship is actually a 1 year scholarship to be renewed at the coach's discretion each year. You can be dumped for almost any reason based on the contract you signed without a lawyer.

Many academic scholarships also have stipulations, e.g. maintaining at least a 3.5 GPA. Not wanting strings attached to other people's money is unrealistic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 46H View Post
Much of the time the scholarships are chopped up into little pieces to spread the wealth which means you need more money. If you need to earn money to pay for the rest of school, you cannot use your special athletic skill to tutor other athletes, unlike student scholarship musicians who can earn money in a bar band or student scholarship art students who can tutor other artists for money.

This brings up the question as to where the money for these scholarships comes from. If it is from taxpayers are you arguing that they need to pay more than they already do? If it is from private sources are you arguing that charities need to cough up more?


Also last I checked there is no right to a college education, with or without a scholarship, that doesn't incur debt.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:57 PM
 
623 posts, read 388,057 times
Reputation: 2040
Yes pay them.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:24 PM
 
1,463 posts, read 865,581 times
Reputation: 2734
Student-athletes are already compensated.. thru scholarships, which can include free room & board, etc.

If an athlete wants to collect a paycheck, they can skip college, and go in to a pro, or semi-pro sports league (but not the NFL right away, because of their post-high school time requirement, etc) The issue is that NFL & NBA players usually are routed thru collegiate sports. So those college games have (in some instances) become unpaid farm leagues. The solution to this, is NFL should create a viable, professional farm league for their future draft picks; or the NFL alter their draft eligibility rules.Then kids (who wouldn't otherwise attend college) wouldn't feel forced into the unpaid charade of student-athletics. My opinion, it's not the purpose/goal of higher education to be accommodating an NFL farm league, or putting student athletes on a college payroll..

This is generally a narrow issue, mostly about future NFL players.. They're skewing the issue away from all the student-athletes (wrestlers, rowers, softball players, etc) who are benefitting greatly & graciously from their scholarships.. and not making NFL $ requests.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:22 AM
 
1,399 posts, read 274,663 times
Reputation: 1835
Seriously? These pampered spoiled children get a free education (Or at least the ticket.) They get passed through and patted on the head because most were actually too stupid to even pass high school (which they were pampered and patted through also.) yet they are going to earn far more money in the next five to ten years than the studends who actually studied and passed their classes will in the next thirty years of working hard! ...And you want to PAY them for this too?




FWIW, they Actually DO get quite compensated in different sneaky ways by Alumni. They are actually breaking the rules/laws but rarely get caught because it's not in the interest of most in the know to expose this. It happens from time to time though and makes the news for a day or so...or at least it used to.
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Old 11-17-2018, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale
931 posts, read 426,741 times
Reputation: 1670
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
I love college football. But I don't understand how our institutions of higher education have gotten into the business of fielding semiprofessional athletic teams.

No admittance for athletes unless your test scores and GPAs meet at least the 25% percentile of that incoming freshman class. This way, we don't have functional illiterates entering college purely on their ability to catch a pass or hit a baseball. My daughter tutored athletes while going through college, and was shocked at some who could barely read or write a compete sentence. At the same time, it sends a signal to high school athletes that they better take their studies seriously.

No paying athletes. Anyone with an above average IQ should be able to see where this would go. There's already national insanity over some 5-star athlete choosing his college. Can you imagine how much worse it gets when he's playing for the highest bidder. Can you imagine? Most college athletic programs lose money as it is. I can't imagine how many more would be in the red if this idea gained legitimacy.
This has been going on for decades. Brian Bosworth brought up the problem of academically incompetent football players in his book "The Boz". He himself was an excellent student, but he had teammates with horrifyingly bad academic skills. His book asserts that it was possible some of those bad students could have graduated but "it would have taken them 8 or 9 years to do it". But the Boz pointed out the reality that the university did not care if they graduate. The priority was on keeping the football players "eligible" so they could play. The Boz ended his point like "Maybe they could not understand square roots or Keynesian economics, but they could play football".

The problem is that even the football players who had been good students (they actually exist) can suffer from brain damage. Today, the Boz has CTE - brain trauma. He had once been a smart, scholar athlete with "A" grades in statistics and calculus for OU - a champion in his time. But now his body is badly damaged, and he clearly suffers from mood swings - symbolic of an ex Big 8 football player with brain trauma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Ru7PsF4Js
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Old 11-17-2018, 07:01 AM
 
3,149 posts, read 1,264,725 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Wait are you saying that prospective student athletes wanting to sign are barred from hiring an agent/lawyer to look over the contract?








Many academic scholarships also have stipulations, e.g. maintaining at least a 3.5 GPA. Not wanting strings attached to other people's money is unrealistic.






This brings up the question as to where the money for these scholarships comes from. If it is from taxpayers are you arguing that they need to pay more than they already do? If it is from private sources are you arguing that charities need to cough up more?


Also last I checked there is no right to a college education, with or without a scholarship, that doesn't incur debt.
Most scholarships are one year and get renewed if people meet the qualifications to continue to the next year. I had lots of friends who lost academic scholarships because they didn’t meet the GPA requirements that were a 3.2+. The whole point is that other people’s money doesn’t go for the students to be out partying instead of studying, playing sports, etc.

As for paying athletes, if you pay basketball and football, there would be no money for other sports. No women would be able to play any sports and we’d be back to the same Title IX issues we had before where women were not getting the same opportunities as men because there are no women’s sports that earn money. In terms of graduation, some schools care more than others whether students graduate. Notre Dame consistently has high graduation rates for student athletes and the vast majority of the football team goes on to get their degrees. If you go to other highly ranked schools like Stanford, Northwestern, etc., the graduation rate of the football team is also going to be good. Plus, if you finish and don’t go onto the NFL (or do but only last a year or two), you still have that Northwestern, Stanford, or Notre Dame degree, which carries a lot of value.
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Old 11-17-2018, 07:38 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,025 posts, read 1,984,366 times
Reputation: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Wait are you saying that prospective student athletes wanting to sign are barred from hiring an agent/lawyer to look over the contract?
...
to maintain amature status, student-athletes are barred from signing with professional sports agents. it would be a violation of the ncaa. theres also socio-economics of being able to hire a lawyer.

i remember to dance around the one-and-done rule because he wanted to make money for his family, he dropped out of high school and played 1 year in the italian professional league. because he was now considered a foreign european he was allowed to enter the nba draft.

also, remember maurice clarett, who tried to sue the nfl to let him play after high school alledging collusion between nfl and ncaa.

Last edited by stanley-88888888; 11-17-2018 at 08:31 AM..
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,613 posts, read 4,850,036 times
Reputation: 16624
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Most scholarships are one year and get renewed if people meet the qualifications to continue to the next year. I had lots of friends who lost academic scholarships because they didn’t meet the GPA requirements that were a 3.2+. The whole point is that other people’s money doesn’t go for the students to be out partying instead of studying, playing sports, etc.

As for paying athletes, if you pay basketball and football, there would be no money for other sports. No women would be able to play any sports and we’d be back to the same Title IX issues we had before where women were not getting the same opportunities as men because there are no women’s sports that earn money. In terms of graduation, some schools care more than others whether students graduate. Notre Dame consistently has high graduation rates for student athletes and the vast majority of the football team goes on to get their degrees. If you go to other highly ranked schools like Stanford, Northwestern, etc., the graduation rate of the football team is also going to be good. Plus, if you finish and don’t go onto the NFL (or do but only last a year or two), you still have that Northwestern, Stanford, or Notre Dame degree, which carries a lot of value.
In most schools Title IX has raised the cost to attend. Most states list their schools and how much more the regular students have to pay because of the sports that few play and fewer care about.

Universities should get to decide what sports they offer. If they profit from football and men's basketball they should be allowed to only offer those 2 sports. Then a small stipend could be included with the scholarship.

99% of students don't care if they have wrestling, rowing, or golf. It was not a factor in picking their school. Those sports do not enhance the college experience since students never go to their games, matches, or meets. Check out the coaching staff salaries for these sports. Not Saban money but much more than most people make.


Get rid of Title IX, at least the part that pertains to equal sports, and there would be money to pay the athletes. How much would depend on the success of the program.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:06 AM
 
45 posts, read 33,308 times
Reputation: 191
We need to 'privatize' college sports and get public colleges out of the money-losing sports entertainment business.

Let private enterprises lease the facilities, the logo, university name and nickname. There would be agreements regarding the personal behavior and scholarship of the athletes representing the college including class attendance and grades. Then the owners could pay productive athletes whatever they think their value is.

Conflicts of interest would then be eliminated and all the College President has to worry about is where to cash the check. All programs would then rise and fall based on the whims of the marketplace.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:35 AM
 
1,463 posts, read 865,581 times
Reputation: 2734
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
Universities should get to decide what sports they offer. Then a small stipend could be included with the scholarship.

99% of students don't care if they have wrestling, rowing, or golf. It Those sports do not enhance the college experience since students never go to their games..
Get rid of Title IX, at least the part that pertains to equal sports, and there would be money to pay the athletes. How much would depend on the success of the program.
Think, I agree with u about freeing schools up to decide which sports they want to field & how much resources they want to spend on each..
I disagree with u about finding ways to pay college football players. I submit, why should college athletics be manipulated (even deeper) in to the NFL's farm league (?)

If the NFL wants a paid minor league, they should establish one; not rely on universities to do that.. Baseball has maintained a successful, professional minor league system.. An NFL minor league would end the charade of high level, football 'student'-athletes. (Dexter Manley was accepted in to Oklahoma St, & he literally couldn't read @ the time, etc).

U mention less popular sports, but they are consistent with the intent of college sports. You go to college to learn & (theoretically) mature, sports enhance your personal development. NFL has manipulated FBS in to an unpaid farm league..that has nothing to do with developing students.
How do u know 99% of college students only want football & basketball on campus. Your source (?) Peace
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