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Old 11-17-2018, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,438 posts, read 1,259,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
Yes. Pay them what they are worth.

Top tier college sports, particularly football and to a lesser degree men's basketball, is probably the closest thing we have to slavery today.
Yeah....getting free college tuition worth $150-300K (depending on the school) is comparable to slavery You do realize how ignorant that sounds, don’t you?? Slavery wasn’t a choice for black people!!! They can always quit the team, an option “slaves” didn’t have
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,982 posts, read 1,260,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
fair enough, but d-1 basketball and football are much more extreme than rowing.
And yet there are many professional basketball and football players who actually went back to college to finish their education.

So regardless if you turn professional or how rigorous your collegiate sport is, one thing consistent is the school will give your ample opportunity to finish your education.

Quote:
Westbrook, a second-year guard for the Oklahoma City Thunder, walked in late to a history class this summer at U.C.L.A. As the N.B.A. opens its preseason, Westbrook was among about 45 players — 10 percent of the league — who had traded gym bags for backpacks in the off-season.
Quote:
Chris Paul of the New Orleans Hornets resumed classes at Wake Forest, and Westbrook’s teammate Kevin Durant continued working toward his degree at Texas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/s...all/06nba.html
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:45 PM
 
4,114 posts, read 1,679,641 times
Reputation: 13033
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
Yeah....getting free college tuition worth $150-300K (depending on the school) is comparable to slavery You do realize how ignorant that sounds, don’t you?? Slavery wasn’t a choice for black people!!! They can always quit the team, an option “slaves” didn’t have

Yeah. As someone who pretty much worked a grueling schedule to simply pay my tuition, I would have killed to be that kind of slave back in the day. Let's see. Free tuition, room, and board. The adulation of those with whom I went to school. A degree if I could keep my nose clean. Yeah. That sure is exploitative as hell. I don't know how we've managed to contain our moral outrage all these years.

Here's the thing. Every time I hear that 'slave labor' argument, I just shake my head. Remember that the 'slave' argument has been ginned up by sports writers, a bunch of semi-drunken hacks whose only role in life is to promote whatever games are on their beats. And if you buy it, then you are one of the hapless dupes on which these guys feed.

But guess what? This is one of the few times the I'll support a zero-sum argument on an issue. Suddenly pay a bunch of pituitary gland cases $20K, $50K, or $100K to play sports to a football team with 75 players on TOP of their free ride, and that adds up pretty quickly. And someone will have to pay in the form of higher tuition or student fees. Because, remember, most college athletic programs do not even break even. As someone who has and will write a lot of tuition checks, ask me how I feel about that.

What's more, anybody can see where this is going. When a 5-star recruit chooses a college, the high school throws a pep rally. ESPN shows up. The family stands in the background while the kid pulls some freaking stunt of choosing the correct cap. Now, imagine the kind of wretched excess that would take place if there was money involved. Do you honestly think that boosters and athletic departments wouldn't be sweetening the deal with extra perks for the best players? Do you honestly think a 2-star recruit and a 5-star recruit would get compensated in equivalent ways? If so, that's a might potent batch of crack you're smoking.

Now imagine the kind of bidding wars that will be breaking out--and what sacrifices the universities would have to make to pay for it. "Sorry that we're shutting down your Economics program, Dr. Smith, but we need to find another $250,000 somewhere, because Alabama has just upped the ante on this tailback we need desperately." And spare me the argument that athletic budgets are separate from the regular university budgets. That is an accounting fiction.

Finally, there's this. All you're doing is feeding the fantasy of the kids that they don't have to pay attention to academics. More importantly, you're elevating sports even higher in status when maybe--just maybe--we need to be giving academics a boost over what is basically nothing more than entertainment. A society becomes that which it glorifies. And, in this case, underwrites.

Nobody is forcing these kids to do this. A player can walk off the practice field any time he damned well pleases and go home, using his considerable physical strength to work on a construction site or stock shelves at the grocery store.

Slaves my foot.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:47 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,025 posts, read 1,984,366 times
Reputation: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
And yet there are many professional basketball and football players who actually went back to college to finish their education.

So regardless if you turn professional or how rigorous your collegiate sport is, one thing consistent is the school will give your ample opportunity to finish your education.



https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/s...all/06nba.html
good stories (thanx for sharing); though, i kinda' doubt a university would waive tuition costs for an undrafted player. like if randell jackson wanted to go back to florida state, he would get free tuition eventhough he is no longer ncaa eligible (maybe he would ?).

Last edited by stanley-88888888; 11-17-2018 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
25,590 posts, read 14,677,234 times
Reputation: 9304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Sure but those athletes are also students. They participate in university life. Football and basketball deform the university. The athletes in those sports, at the creme de la creme sports schools, are not students. Generally the free educations they get are worth how much they paid for them: nothing.

On top it, these athletes are cheated out of the money they bring into their schools. The money goes to the Nick Sabans, Brian Kelleys, etc. No one watches Ohio State or Georgia to see their coaches stomp up and down the sidelines. They watch to see great athletes make great catches or baskets.

Or the money goes to other sports that had nothing to do with bringing it in. Meanwhile, the athletes get punished if the get so much as a penny.

The situation this creates is like an open wound exposed to human waste. It's corruption waiting to happen. Agents, sneaker companies, Louisville strippers and whores. The skill of these slimes far surpasses that of the keystone cops watching them.

This is what these colleges lower themselves to. For this reason alone it should be stopped.
The problem is the money trail doesn't lead to the players. The NCAA for years was able to make money off of EA Sports for their series of college football games and even a forary into the Midway NBA Jam platform for college basketball. The players weren't named. The NCAA and colleges profited off of jerseys of the players and the players don't make a dime. Yet, when Reggie Bush gets money from a booster and the NCAA didn't get their 100% cut, they revoke wins from USC and any awards he earned through blood, sweat and tears.

I say the profitable teams which is largely football, men's basketball and somewhat women's basketball, hockey, lacrosse and baseball (due to national TV finals) should get something from the NCAA making money off their likeness and nothing but an education to their names. It use to be players could get jobs doing desk attendant or security at the dorms, but now they cannot. They often maybe only have a few hundred dollars for their names after room & board and book stipends for each semester.

My idea, pay the football and men's basketball players minimum wage from the NCAA coffers and any merch from their likeness (college football/basketball shirts) or national ticket sales (let's face it college football and basketball gets billions in revenues for bowls, neutral site games and the various tournaments) is put into a trust until they graduate. If they transfer (barring a death sentence or Craig James son incident) they lose it. This way regardless of their prospects for the pros, they got some money in the bank for their post college life.
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:44 AM
Status: "True liberal" (set 9 days ago)
 
3,853 posts, read 1,724,217 times
Reputation: 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The problem is the money trail doesn't lead to the players. The NCAA for years was able to make money off of EA Sports for their series of college football games and even a forary into the Midway NBA Jam platform for college basketball. The players weren't named. The NCAA and colleges profited off of jerseys of the players and the players don't make a dime. Yet, when Reggie Bush gets money from a booster and the NCAA didn't get their 100% cut, they revoke wins from USC and any awards he earned through blood, sweat and tears.

I say the profitable teams which is largely football, men's basketball and somewhat women's basketball, hockey, lacrosse and baseball (due to national TV finals) should get something from the NCAA making money off their likeness and nothing but an education to their names. It use to be players could get jobs doing desk attendant or security at the dorms, but now they cannot. They often maybe only have a few hundred dollars for their names after room & board and book stipends for each semester.

My idea, pay the football and men's basketball players minimum wage from the NCAA coffers and any merch from their likeness (college football/basketball shirts) or national ticket sales (let's face it college football and basketball gets billions in revenues for bowls, neutral site games and the various tournaments) is put into a trust until they graduate. If they transfer (barring a death sentence or Craig James son incident) they lose it. This way regardless of their prospects for the pros, they got some money in the bank for their post college life.
These are good ideas MK but they will fail. An alum or sneaker company will still come up with a better offer including money for the mother and "vacations" in Las Vegas.

The colleges have leagues of like minded members. Let the SEC have rules that their members agree on. Let the Ivy League have their rules. The NCAA is a sham and a harmful sham.

The NFL and NBA should be encouraged, or coerced if that doesn't work, to set up minor leagues like the NHL has. They could pay kids getting out of HS or turning 16 their market worth. More kids would get more money as opposed to a few kids getting all the money.

They can rejigger the tournaments however they like. Go back to NCAA and NIT, whatever gets them off.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: AZ
613 posts, read 318,629 times
Reputation: 2479
Universities are feeders for professional sports. Tennis, football, basketball, golf to name the big ones. Those industries should be supporting universities for the benefit they derive. The vast numbers of college athletes have no hope for a career and wealth from it. So, most play for the joy of it and that should be enough. If they can leave school with no student loan debt then they are far better off than millions of others who will be in debt for life.
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:45 AM
 
9,439 posts, read 11,295,982 times
Reputation: 12638
Sure pay them a reasonable amount 30-40K a year but then the university is essentially a partner right? Letting Junior baller showcase their talent?

Now when they sign pro..........University gets 10% of all of their future earnings!


Seems fair, just like when a research professor discovers something big in a lab, the university is partners on the riches.
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:48 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,025 posts, read 1,984,366 times
Reputation: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bygeorge View Post
Universities are feeders for professional sports. Tennis, football, basketball, golf to name the big ones. Those industries should be supporting universities for the benefit they derive. The vast numbers of college athletes have no hope for a career and wealth from it. So, most play for the joy of it and that should be enough. If they can leave school with no student loan debt then they are far better off than millions of others who will be in debt for life.
+ 1;
tennis and golf pros go to college ?

maybe all ncaa athletics could be minimum wage job. would that conflict with their amature status ?
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:49 AM
 
9,439 posts, read 11,295,982 times
Reputation: 12638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
And yet there are many professional basketball and football players who actually went back to college to finish their education.

So regardless if you turn professional or how rigorous your collegiate sport is, one thing consistent is the school will give your ample opportunity to finish your education.



https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/s...all/06nba.html
Also know that if you were on scholarship the league you sign in has to pay whatever was left on the scholarship so you can finish your education.

So if you had 35K left for your senior year and you sign pro then the team puts 35K in an acct for you to draw on to pay that last year's tuition since you no longer qualify as a scholarship athlete since you turned pro. I know someone who got this.
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