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Old 12-15-2018, 09:05 AM
 
4,396 posts, read 1,850,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
To the perpetually offended, logic and common sense are often lost.
Amen.

It's like an epidemic.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
1,667 posts, read 534,121 times
Reputation: 3221
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
First, I want to be clear that although I am now an agnostic (former Methodist), I have always LOVED Easter, the 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

However, lately, these holidays seem to be the cause of disharmony between Americans rather than occasions for both friends and strangers to just share a good time together. Every one of the holidays I listed now have some controversy attached to them, with some people saying that the 4th of July celebrates our white heritage too much, that celebrating Halloween is pagan and unChristian, that Thanksgiving is a travesty because of what the Pilgrims and others did to the natives, and that such things as community Easter Egg hunts or "Breakfast with Santa" are exclusionary (or worse) to people of other religions.

Now, I personally would not like to see those holidays entirely omitted from public notice, but reading some of the comments on some of the current and recent threads (both pro and con about any certain holiday), it makes me think that the public celebration of these holidays are causing more ill will lately than good will.

What do you think?

I think the 'negative Nelly's' don't have to celebrate, and can otherwise pretend they had a mama and shut up if they cant think of anything nice to say about someone's holiday.

This is America - the melting pot. We are supposed to respect someone else's culture, and allow them the freedom to observe their traditions, including "American traditions".
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Old 12-15-2018, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
13,345 posts, read 7,364,462 times
Reputation: 50793
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Speak for yourself.

People don't have to celebrate other holidays that aren't from their ethnic backgrounds; in some cases doing so would even be considered cultural appropriation. I would feel silly and inappropriate celebrating a Hindu holiday. It's not my place to do that.



Why would you feel it was culturally inappropriate to celebrate an ethnic holiday from a different background? Our Hindu friends enjoyed celebrating the 4th of July and Christmas with us. They want to understand our culture. There's nothing wrong with that. I rather enjoy their culture as well. I guess you can stay home and be a stay off my grass kind of person if it suits you, but I'd be willing to guess that if libraries set up different festivals from different cultures that a lot of people from different cultures would attend.

I saw a documentary about a Krampus festival in Munich. I so want to see that.
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:13 PM
 
18,524 posts, read 10,152,957 times
Reputation: 18186
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
Why would you feel it was culturally inappropriate to celebrate an ethnic holiday from a different background? Our Hindu friends enjoyed celebrating the 4th of July and Christmas with us. They want to understand our culture. There's nothing wrong with that. I rather enjoy their culture as well. I guess you can stay home and be a stay off my grass kind of person if it suits you, but I'd be willing to guess that if libraries set up different festivals from different cultures that a lot of people from different cultures would attend.

I saw a documentary about a Krampus festival in Munich. I so want to see that.
If we're talking superficialities, you're right. Of course, most Americans "celebrate" in superficial ways, so in that manner "it's all good."

But I doubt any Hindu would feel comfortable going through the entire observance of masses and rituals for Advent, Epiphany, et cetera.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:14 AM
 
714 posts, read 242,040 times
Reputation: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
First, I want to be clear that although I am now an agnostic (former Methodist), I have always LOVED Easter, the 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

However, lately, these holidays seem to be the cause of disharmony between Americans rather than occasions for both friends and strangers to just share a good time together. Every one of the holidays I listed now have some controversy attached to them, with some people saying that the 4th of July celebrates our white heritage too much, that celebrating Halloween is pagan and unChristian, that Thanksgiving is a travesty because of what the Pilgrims and others did to the natives, and that such things as community Easter Egg hunts or "Breakfast with Santa" are exclusionary (or worse) to people of other religions.

Now, I personally would not like to see those holidays entirely omitted from public notice, but reading some of the comments on some of the current and recent threads (both pro and con about any certain holiday), it makes me think that the public celebration of these holidays are causing more ill will lately than good will.

What do you think?

Go back to basics: solstice celebrations for Easter and Xmas; just like we don't have Hitler Day we shouldn't have Columbus Day either, combine 4th of July with Thanksgiving and call it Patriot Celebration....or maybe have two Patriot Celebrations. Alot of people are waking up to the fact, these traditional celebrations had an ulterior motive which was Christianity. And that never was the intent of the Unitarians who founded this Nation. The sad thing, is some people get offended if we say Happy Holidays...hello, a holiday is a holy day. Also, get rid of daylight savings time, so we can shop in the daylight or go exercise.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,467 posts, read 43,865,469 times
Reputation: 19129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
The controversy is created, nurtured and imposed by one particular segment of the population that is fixated on identity politics, critical theory and fomenting revolution. Namely, the Left and its assorted useful idiots.
If you consider FOX News and their cohorts to be "the left," then sure - that's who is responsible for the manufactured controversy.

(literally that's the only place where I've seen people complain... really, they're just complaining about people complaining, even though the latter group seems to be nonexistent)
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,467 posts, read 43,865,469 times
Reputation: 19129
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoundedSpirit View Post
Upon further reflection and soul-searching, I think you might be right about this part. I agree that no one, regardless of where they are from, should be made to feel excluded or their culture disrespected. However, I do not agree that our own culture should be shoved aside just in case it "offends" someone, no matter who advocates for it.
And I don't think anyone is ACTUALLY requesting that... as I've said in other comments here, it's just people who think they're doing a "preemptive strike" against a nonexistent group of offended people. I'm Jewish, and we aren't offended by Christmas or other non-Jewish holidays. So who is??

Quote:
I do not agree. I know of many people who have lived here for decades who refuse to learn to speak English. These are not just Hindus or Muslims, but also folks from Latin America, Russia, etc. There is no good reason that preserving one's own culture should stand in the way of learning the language of the country you have chosen to live in.
Refuse to speak or refuse to learn? Those are very different things. Also different is "unable to learn/speak," which is quite common in older immigrants. If you look back through the entire history of our nation, it's pretty much always been the same way: First (of a family) to come here speak little to no English, first generation born here is bilingual, and third+ generations will be fully assimilated and usually English-only. This is the natural order of language & cultural learning, no matter what country we're discussing... and I say this as someone with 20+ years of experience working with ESL students, so trust me when I say it's usually not intentional.

I mean, what would be the logical reason to REFUSE to learn your residential country's language? Do you really think that makes for an easy life? Methinks you just assume they're refusing to learn, instead of considering they're trying but struggling. And if you moved to a new country with a new language tomorrow, I bet you'd also struggle with this.

Quote:
I don't hate anyone (with the exception of a horrible woman I used to work with, but that's another story), but I am offended by people who consciously choose to live here, legally or illegally, and thumb their noses at our laws and our language.
What laws are they refusing to abide by, and how would they get away with that? Please give examples, because I'm fairly sure they still have to follow our laws (not getting into immigration laws) - and if they don't, they would face the same potential consequences as a natural-born citizen. Getting way off topic here, but I am curious about this statement.

As for the language and holidays/traditions, who cares? Unless they're making you translate for them or something, I say mind your own business.
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:04 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
18,340 posts, read 17,524,734 times
Reputation: 30703
I've never known what to think. I don't know if there's a good answer.

Long ago, in school we had to stop making Christmas crafts or having Christmas plays. No Christmas decorations.

Nothing to do with "the government." It was because Jewish kids felt left out. Also, we were using public places to display our religion. I can understand how they feel.

All these years later and we still can't have religious scenes on publically owned land.

I guess I'm just about used to it. I can feel their side too when schhols are closed for Jewish holidays. Why should I have to put up with that?

Well, because we all live in the same country and we have many sets of religious beliefs. Respect.

Still, I didn't like losing out on my town's Christmas decorations all those years ago. Maybe we should all be a little more tolerant.

I am not going to celebrate someone else's religion. Thata's not the answer. We all have to be allowed to celebrate our own. But how much is too much? Do we really have to stop saying Merry Christmas? Where do we draw the line?

And lately, people don't even want to try to figure it out. People would rather just hate.
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Last edited by in_newengland; Yesterday at 10:15 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Under Moon & Star
1,752 posts, read 632,269 times
Reputation: 9851
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I am not going to celebrate someone else's religion. Thata's not the answer. We all have to be allowed to celebrate our own. But how much is too much? Do we really have to stop saying Merry Christmas? Where do we draw the line?
No.

Do you think it's illegal to say 'Merry Christmas'?

Say it to your heart's content.

A few businesses have decided that, because their customer base includes non-Christians, that a inclusive non-specific 'Happy Holidays's is preferable. It is a strawman to claim that one cannot say 'Merry Christmas'. And it is hardly unreasonable for a business to attempt to cater to everyone - no matter how much the snowflakes might meltdown upon hearing 'Happy Holidays'. These same people would have an absolute meltdown if an employee at Target extended to them wishes for a merry Kwanzaa or wished them a 'Happy Eid'. And they would do so without the slightest shred of ironic self-awareness.

My wife is an elementary school teacher. Those parents who have a problem with Christmas (and Halloween) are never the non-religious ones, they're the fundamentalists who 'don't believe in Christmas' or who think dressing up in scary costumes 'is demonic'.
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Old Yesterday, 07:34 AM
 
Location: European Union
11,838 posts, read 13,288,533 times
Reputation: 31687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
I posted this link on another thread. It really says it all.

Hope the link works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwVp...youtu.be&t=176
Not very convincing based on my experience and observation.

I worked in an environment with a large percentage of Jews (observant and non-observant), Christians, Hindus and Buddhists...no Muslims at the time. "Holiday Party" covered all the bases, and why not cover all the bases. But this was a large city where a number of non-Christian religions had large followings and celebrated various types of holidays near the closing of the year. Contrary to what the video maintains, the problem for some Americans is not that religion is being taken out of public life, but rather that other religions now have a part in it...and want to. That, I think, is the big rub.

As for the "C" word, I saw non-Jews look decidedly discombobulated when their "Merry Christmas" was returned with "Happy Chanukah."

"Happy Holidays" goes back to at least the Fifties, so it is no recent PC invention. I was born in 1938, and I have heard from the time I was child. With the Christmas and New Year holidays falling only a week apart it was a perfectly sensible usage, and still is. And in a more religiously diverse society nowadays it can take other religious holidays under the plural umbrella. I find it interesting that the religiously observant Christians I personally know do not feel threatened. I think they are secure in their religious faith about Christmas, and, thus, far less concerned about the secular greetings, office parties, etc. that are on the periphery of their Nativity orientation.

Last edited by kevxu; Yesterday at 07:59 AM..
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