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Old 12-26-2018, 11:46 AM
 
738 posts, read 251,730 times
Reputation: 927

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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
That's exactly how the status of Kris Kringle was decided in court in Miracle on 34th St-- he must be Santa because the Post Office delivered the mail for Santa to him. Maybe you missed my earlier post where I asked at what point after conception must a SS# be applied for if "at birth" isn't the answer to our question.




I think you're right about morality & the arbitrary nature of most laws, BUT--


--- if we can muster enough votes, we could bring back slavery?
Ok, sure why not, after a positive pregnancy test, get a social security number, miscarry, get another form for the miscarriage. We already falsify birth certificates with parents' names who are faking the birth, as in adoption. Dunno anything about Kris a Santa court case but it's likely he was a person since he was walking to the post office. In-utero, he wasn't though, since he was still attached. Relative to ss#, those are for tracking persons now but the original intention was to prove that a person was free to be a US citizen, after being a slave.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Coastal, NC
2,686 posts, read 2,121,248 times
Reputation: 3883
Go to Walmart and just watch. Its still questionable.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:56 PM
 
339 posts, read 75,725 times
Reputation: 458
That is a definition a human applied to a point in time. It does not make it correct.
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Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
 
13,542 posts, read 14,214,634 times
Reputation: 11182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
Abortion is not one of the "odds" that a human life should need to beat. That's insulting and ridiculous.
It has been happening for thousands of years
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Old Yesterday, 11:26 AM
 
13,542 posts, read 14,214,634 times
Reputation: 11182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
A newborn infant is BY NO MEANS fully developed. At all.

If we're waiting for the individual to be fully developed, a person isn't a person until they're about 25 years old. And then at about 55 they begin to lose capacity, so do they exit the "human" category at that point?

What about people who reach into mid years without ever reaching their full human possible potential - they have CP and never are able to speak or walk?

It is a slippery, slippery slope when we don't just face the obvious fact, that a human being, with a full set of 46 chromosomes that are human, is the beginning of the life.
Is a fetus human? Of course. Once born anyone can take care of some one unable to do it for themselves. Unlike pregnancy where itís on one individual woman
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Old Yesterday, 11:45 AM
 
1,391 posts, read 678,740 times
Reputation: 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
I read a piece on Foxnews.com yesterday by Judge Napolitano, a guy I highly respect. He's obviously very intelligent-- he agrees with me on so many topics.


In this piece, he categorically states that a human life becomes a "person" at conception because that's when it becomes a "potential person." No corroborating evidence was included to support that statement.


Without turning this into an argument about abortion, let's discuss the question of when does a human life start, ie- become a "person." Please give your opinion and any facts or observations you may have to defend your opinion (legal precedents don't count as valid arguments). And very importantly, if your position is based on some theological teaching, please have the intellectual integrity to so state.


If we can eventually come to an agreement based on science &/or logic, the answer to the question of the legality of abortion will naturally follow. I've neglected to include religion as a component of the conclusion here, because, as we all should know-- laws in the USA are not to be based on religious teachings, although it's fine if they happen to agree with religious teaching.


Let the games begin!

IMO, "life starts at conception" is the religious definition of life, not the scientific one. Does anyone (except for anti-abortionists) really put a fetus on the same level as a newborn baby or a toddler?
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM
 
5,831 posts, read 3,585,504 times
Reputation: 14679
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatTX View Post
Does anyone (except for anti-abortionists) really put a fetus on the same level as a newborn baby or a toddler?
If you put a fetus on the same level as a newborn baby or a toddler, it would be really odd and inconsistent not to be against abortion. So no, this doesn't really happen.

On the other hand, most people who claim that a fetus is fundamentally not human are very squeamish at the idea of elective abortion during the last few weeks of pregnancy. There is a sense that a healthy fetus one day or one week before its due date is really just about the same as a newborn, just in a different location, and it shouldn't be destroyed on a whim. And this is certainly an inconsistency.
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Old Yesterday, 12:02 PM
Status: "Freedom-Diversity-Unity" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Better left unsaid
4,287 posts, read 1,672,903 times
Reputation: 6069
A fertilized human embryo is a complete human being.

Just because it's at an early stage doesn't change anything. We don't distinguish a newborn, infant, teenager, adult, and elderly person as being on different levels of "humanity", so it makes not sense to continue that earlier on to and through the very beginnings.

We're good at playing games with rules when it comes to us, and use different ones for all other creatures, even though the biology and nature is the same.
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Old Yesterday, 12:16 PM
 
1,391 posts, read 678,740 times
Reputation: 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
If you put a fetus on the same level as a newborn baby or a toddler, it would be really odd and inconsistent not to be against abortion. So no, this doesn't really happen.

On the other hand, most people who claim that a fetus is fundamentally not human are very squeamish at the idea of elective abortion during the last few weeks of pregnancy. There is a sense that a healthy fetus one day or one week before its due date is really just about the same as a newborn, just in a different location, and it shouldn't be destroyed on a whim. And this is certainly an inconsistency.

Elective abortion that late in the pregnancy is illegal in most states. Women simply can't almost carry their pregnancy to term and then decide they want an abortion. If a woman is a few weeks from giving birth and in danger due to the pregnancy, she is delivered via c-section. Late-term abortions after 20 weeks, but before viability, are likewise performed when the pregnant woman is in danger, or when fetal abnormalities were discovered well into the pregnancy.
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Old Yesterday, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,344 posts, read 60,702,639 times
Reputation: 28093
I will steal a definition from the US Supreme Court. "I do not know how to define it, but I know it when I see it."
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