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Old 01-18-2019, 11:35 AM
 
8,751 posts, read 6,453,478 times
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This is going to tiptoe the line here, so, please, let's try not to get this locked for at least a few days.. But, I read this story last night..

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/st...224701095.html

Long story short. Korean woman is told by a town councilman to register to vote. Goes to register, the election official sees their Green Card and registers them to vote.

The woman is indicted on illegal voting charges, which could have landed her in jail for up to 6 months.

The judge fined her $100, which seems pretty symbolic and chastised the election board for allowing her to register to vote.


I actually think this was the proper outcome here. The Korean woman had no intention of breaking the law. That's no excuse for doing it, but, she was.. I'd come close to calling this entrapment, except law enforcement wasn't doing the entrapping.

I guess the question here.. Should the election official who registered her to vote face the same penalties she did? I don't deal with immigration at all, but I know someone who possesses a green card isn't eligible to vote (Other than in some places in local elections)..

Not saying the election official necessarily should get jail time.. Though, it's hard to call this anything better than gross incompetence on their part. He should at least face the same punishment as the person who illegally voted only because they were basically told it was OK by said election official.


Now.. Other cases, where someone registers to vote in one state, moves, and then votes twice. that's intent. That's a totally different situation. So.. Let's leave those type situations out.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
20,240 posts, read 13,287,924 times
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I used to register people to vote. I’ve never seen a green card, of any kind. But in MO in past years, we asked only for basic I.D. Then we administered an oath that they were qualified to vote. I cannot remember if we asked where they were born, but we did ask what their mother’s maiden name was.

Since they signed the form, and their signature was compared every time thereafter, it was impossible to vote in the wrong precinct or to vote more than once.

If I had been presented with a green card, I think I would have had the presence of mind to ask where she was born, to qualify her to register. I do not know why an employer would direct someone to vote. Usually employers hate giving time off for voting, even when they are legally bound to do so.

I’d lay the fault at the feet of the local elections officials who should have trained the registrar better.
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Old 01-18-2019, 07:13 PM
 
Location: midvalley Oregon and Eastside seattle area
3,469 posts, read 1,577,607 times
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Pretty costly mistake on the county. Housing and food & board for 6 months. I am age 68 and I can use the free services.
A person with a green card or less is under no obligation to know or understand the laws and regulation of voting.
However a person with citizenship is responsible in knowing the laws and regulation because it is their Right to vote.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:04 PM
 
6,213 posts, read 3,330,114 times
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All three share the blame. The town councilman who told her to register should have known because he was an elected official. The election official deserves some blame but may have some mitigation if they've never seen a green card before and assumed it was an ID. And finally the woman herself deserves a share of the blame because she should have known, at least enough to check, that as a non citizen she didn't have voting rights. If you visited Korea on whatever their equivalent of a green card is, would you assume you could vote without first finding out what their laws are?
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,796 posts, read 2,678,041 times
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Voting is for citizens.

Having a green card means you are here legally, but NOT a citizen.
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:26 PM
Status: "Freedom - Diversity - Unity" (set 1 hour ago)
 
4,495 posts, read 1,753,132 times
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Not sure why voting is so touted. Look at the presidential elections. Millions vote one way, 538 electors go another. The tiny segment (538 people) overrules millions of people, so it's a joke.

It's all just a con to get people to think they are involved. No other country would allow what we get away with.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 01-21-2019 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:53 PM
 
8,751 posts, read 6,453,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Not sure why voting is so touted. Look at the presidential elections. Millions vote one way, 538 electors go another. The tiny segment (538 people) overrules millions of people, so it's a joke.

It's all just a con to get people to think they are involved. No other country would allow what we get away with.

There's a topic on here about the electoral college. This goes there.

This topic is only regarding this specific situation.
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
3,198 posts, read 1,170,171 times
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Nobody did anything with intent to defraud or otherwise knowingly commit a crime. It falls within the spirit of justice to just let it go, and change procedures somewhere to tighten the system where necessary and useful..

Oh, wait -- there is no "spirit of justice" in the US, only "full extent of the law", so carry in with your vindictive zeal. The prosecutor wants to be governor someday, and needs this one to win the "tough on crime" votes.

Last edited by cebuan; 01-28-2019 at 08:59 PM..
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:47 AM
 
38,120 posts, read 39,454,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The judge fined her $100, which seems pretty symbolic and chastised the election board for allowing her to register to vote.

One of the major issues is the state cannot require proof of citizenship if the person registering to vote is using the federal form. Minimally the state must accept the federal form and allow the registrant to vote for federal offices. They could separately require proof of citizenship for state/local elections but that would require separate voting rolls, separate elections etc. That of course would be completely impractical and would not prevent non-citizens from voting in a federal election. If this woman was using the federal form even if the person registering them suspects they are non citizen I'm not sure what their options are other than accepting the form since they cannot question their citizenship.



This was a ruling by SCOTUS a few years ago and came about because of the motor voter law which is intended to bolster voter registrations. Without changes to that law legal immigrants who would be able to obtain the correct documentation including an ID are left to the honor system.
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:51 PM
 
8,751 posts, read 6,453,478 times
Reputation: 11281
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Nobody did anything with intent to defraud or otherwise knowingly commit a crime. It falls within the spirit of justice to just let it go, and change procedures somewhere to tighten the system where necessary and useful..

Oh, wait -- there is no "spirit of justice" in the US, only "full extent of the law", so carry in with your vindictive zeal. The prosecutor wants to be governor someday, and needs this one to win the "tough on crime" votes.

but.. This situation would be more like waiting to cross the street, and a cop comes up and tells you "You don't have to wait for the light, go ahead".. Then immediately gives you a citation once you walk into the street for doing what he just told you was OK to do.

Intentionally keeping this narrow to this specific situation here. There are TONS of other situations of voting illegally. Don't want to bring all those in..

This is a situation of one Korean woman who was told "You're eligible, go register to vote".. Did so.. Was registered to vote, even after providing evidence to the election board that they were not eligible to vote.. Then went and voted.

I find it difficult to place the blame on her.
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