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I live in Norway where the police don't normally carry guns. They have them in their patrol cars and can use them if the situation allows for it.
The role and organization of police in Norway and the US is very different.
In Norway all local police organizations were done away with years ago and now there is only a national police. One advantage of that is that resources are allocated a lot more effectively and efficiently than in the US. Only 1 purchasing organization, 1 payroll, 1 training, 1 advanced forensics lab and so on. Police are allocated locally depending on need. So we avoid the perverse situation you find in the US where rich suburbs with little crime are well policed while poor urban and rural areas with high crime are sparsely policed. The advantage is that resources can be concentrated into high crime areas (in theory) and taken away from low crime areas and police districts. My cousin is a cop in rural low crime area and sometimes he is the only person on duty in an area that takes two hours to drive across. Other people are on call locally though. Another advantage is that you don't get a country sheriff in a political role like you see in the US where the stereotypical fat guy abusing his power over non-whites, women and the poor.
In Norway, in order to become a police officer you need to take a specialized three year education that covers a lot of different aspects of policing.
The entire society and criminal justice system in Norway is geared towards alleviating poverty and stopping people from becoming criminals already in childhood. Whereas the US criminal justice system is highly punative in nature in Norway it is geared towards getting people back on the right track and back into society as productive members. Police in the US ending up doing a lot of tasks that in Norway would be done by social workers.
Simply put Norway is geared towards addressing the root causes behind crime while the US is mostly geared towards the symptoms which are the actual crimes themselves.
Given all of those contextual differences I don't think US policing is all that ripe for un-armed police. There are a lot of prerequisites that I would recommened beforehand. Disarming police would be a recipe for disaster.
Last edited by Pavlov's Dog; 02-12-2019 at 03:17 AM..
I wouldn't get rid of the weapons, but walking the beat and community(including those familiar with the community) policing would go a long way in terms of reducing crime rates.
I live in Norway where the police don't normally carry guns. They have them in their patrol cars and can use them if the situation allows for it.
The role and organization of police in Norway and the US is very different.
In Norway all local police organizations were done away with years ago and now there is only a national police. One advantage of that is that resources are allocated a lot more effectively and efficiently than in the US. Only 1 purchasing organization, 1 payroll, 1 training, 1 advanced forensics lab and so on. Police are allocated locally depending on need. So we avoid the perverse situation you find in the US where rich suburbs with little crime are well policed while poor urban and rural areas with high crime are sparsely policed. The advantage is that resources can be concentrated into high crime areas (in theory) and taken away from low crime areas and police districts. My cousin is a cop in rural low crime area and sometimes he is the only person on duty in an area that takes two hours to drive across. Other people are on call locally though. Another advantage is that you don't get a country sheriff in a political role like you see in the US where the stereotypical fat guy abusing his power over non-whites, women and the poor.
In Norway, in order to become a police officer you need to take a specialized three year education that covers a lot of different aspects of policing.
The entire society and criminal justice system in Norway is geared towards alleviating poverty and stopping people from becoming criminals already in childhood. Whereas the US criminal justice system is highly punative in nature in Norway it is geared towards getting people back on the right track and back into society as productive members. Police in the US ending up doing a lot of tasks that in Norway would be done by social workers.
Simply put Norway is geared towards addressing the root causes behind crime while the US is mostly geared towards the symptoms which are the actual crimes themselves.
Given all of those contextual differences I don't think US policing is all that ripe for un-armed police. There are a lot of prerequisites that I would recommened beforehand. Disarming police would be a recipe for disaster.
Dude, the U.S. has over 320 million more people to police and over 20x the land mass to cover. A national police force is not logistically feasible.
Your population is about 90% ethnic Norwegian and Europeans. We have a large % of population originating from third world countries, and high urban crime areas.
Your prejudice about overweight white people is your problem. Maybe it’s just another example of left wing white guilt. Don’t know, don’t care.
Maybe next time a world war breaks out, we can count on Norway to save the world.
Oh wait, after Germany invaded you in WWII, it took all of 2 months for your ‘resistance’ to fold and full occupation to begin.
Guess you can’t help save anybody else if you can’t help yourselves.
Don’t preach to us about what you think you know about America.
Dude, the U.S. has over 320 million more people to police and over 20x the land mass to cover. A national police force is not logistically feasible.
Nor was I advocating for a national police force in the US. State level consolidation might make sense though. Obviously the US already has the FBI with some national
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annino
Your population is about 90% ethnic Norwegian and Europeans. We have a large % of population originating from third world countries, and high urban crime areas.
The population of Oslo is 34% immigrant. Norway on the whole is 14%. Norway also has a very high percentage from third world countries. What we don't have is high crime areas and that was the point of my post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annino
Your prejudice about overweight white people is your problem. Maybe it’s just another example of left wing white guilt. Don’t know, don’t care.
Respect is earned, not given. People who don't have self control in a key area like food consumption, health and keeping in shape are going to have a hard time earning my respect when they make a bad impression, especially when they are in a job where being in shape should be a prerequisite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annino
Maybe next time a world war breaks out, we can count on Norway to save the world.
Oh wait, after Germany invaded you in WWII, it took all of 2 months for your ‘resistance’ to fold and full occupation to begin.
Guess you can’t help save anybody else if you can’t help yourselves.
A little thing called NATO has happened since WWII and Norwegian solider will give their lives alongside American soldiers to protect our way of life. I don't see what that has to with the topic at hand though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annino
Don’t preach to us about what you think you know about America.
I am also and American, grew up in the US (Oregon, Washington State and DC). I own a house in the US and pay taxes. I also read the New York Times every day so I will preach whatever I damned well please.
I read a while back about how many police officers in Europe don't carry guns. Then I remembered this article about a local community near where I'm from that has been having uniformed officers patrolling city streets by foot.
It got me thinking, what if there were, say, 3 times as many police officers in a given city, all patrolling the city by foot, in the dense, walkable, heavily trafficked areas of course.
And what if they were only carrying non-lethal weapons? Things like guns that only shoot rubber bullets/bean bags. Possibly tasers.
I don't know if I'd advocate for this type of policing in urban centers with extremely high violent crime rates, but for many small/medium size moderate-high urban cities, I think this has potential.
I always think about how when I'm in Manhattan, the overwhelming presence of uniformed officers right on seemingly every street really helps you feel safe and protected. Could that type of thing apply to other cities and would the use of non-lethal weapons help with lowering the rate of police brutality cases?
I live where the police walk beats. They will accompany women who are walking alone at night and make sure they get home safely. Even for that walking a beat would save lives and prevent crime.
Unarmed police would be dead by citizens carrying guns. You'd have to have gun controls unlike the proliferation of them today and most of America won't even give up their military-style weapons. So it won't work as long as the NRA funds politicians. The vicious cycle continues. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
I'd love to see the utopia your describe perhaps some day the young generation will do something about this. Old folks have been beating their heads against a brick wall on this day one.
I read a while back about how many police officers in Europe don't carry guns. Then I remembered this article about a local community near where I'm from that has been having uniformed officers patrolling city streets by foot.
It got me thinking, what if there were, say, 3 times as many police officers in a given city, all patrolling the city by foot, in the dense, walkable, heavily trafficked areas of course.
And what if they were only carrying non-lethal weapons? Things like guns that only shoot rubber bullets/bean bags. Possibly tasers.
I don't know if I'd advocate for this type of policing in urban centers with extremely high violent crime rates, but for many small/medium size moderate-high urban cities, I think this has potential.
I always think about how when I'm in Manhattan, the overwhelming presence of uniformed officers right on seemingly every street really helps you feel safe and protected. Could that type of thing apply to other cities and would the use of non-lethal weapons help with lowering the rate of police brutality cases?
In this climate, if our law enforcement officers didn't carry guns, there would be more dead LEOs
I read a while back about how many police officers in Europe don't carry guns. Then I remembered this article about a local community near where I'm from that has been having uniformed officers patrolling city streets by foot.
It got me thinking, what if there were, say, 3 times as many police officers in a given city, all patrolling the city by foot, in the dense, walkable, heavily trafficked areas of course.
And what if they were only carrying non-lethal weapons? Things like guns that only shoot rubber bullets/bean bags. Possibly tasers.
I don't know if I'd advocate for this type of policing in urban centers with extremely high violent crime rates, but for many small/medium size moderate-high urban cities, I think this has potential.
I always think about how when I'm in Manhattan, the overwhelming presence of uniformed officers right on seemingly every street really helps you feel safe and protected. Could that type of thing apply to other cities and would the use of non-lethal weapons help with lowering the rate of police brutality cases?
I would think that carrying only less lethal weapons that normally won't kill in an environment where a significant percentage of your contacts carry more lethal weapons, knifes and guns is a prescription for more not less police brutality. Simply put the officer would back off and let the public face more danger or even more preemptively move a fighting engagement to stop anything before someone else could bring their greater weapon into the fight.
Increasingly though most American police are carrying more options from the long guns in the patrol car to the high capacity pistol on them at all times being the more lethal options. To batons, sprays, electric stun guns of different types and bean bag guns also in the car being part of the basic load weighing an officer down.
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