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Old 04-06-2019, 10:54 AM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,495,519 times
Reputation: 35712

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
I see us as going through a reaction to a surge of unwanted immigration here in the US and in Europe. The so-called "populism" that's rising in both continents offers only band-aids, not a cure for the issue. And, to be honest, the cure has to come from the countries of origin. Given time, I think this will sort itself out.
What surge of immigration? If you mean undocumented folks entering from the southern border, than has been happening for decades. It's not a new surge. Then, as statistics show, most illegal immigration comes from folks overstaying visas. Folks from Europe and other countries.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,349,532 times
Reputation: 50372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
I'm sure lots of people think I'm speaking like an alarmist but I can't stop thinking about this. As far as I'm concerned, it's likely that society is entering a new Dark Ages because of a combination of a culture that tries to brainwash people and the progress of technology. What is a way we prove this wrong?
  • Entertainment and pop culture hitting a dead-end
  • Media is concentrated by only 5 large companies and blinding people away from the truth
  • Advanced technology allowing spying and invading privacy, and potentially threatening mass job losses
  • Men are no longer men and women are no longer women
  • Nuclear war (or even more deadly advanced weapons) is potentially a looming threat again
  • Living is harder because everything is way more expensive and income hasn't quite caught up

Admittedly it is little Western-centric, but I don't doubt it can apply to the non-West. The West is just what I happen to be more familiar with.
When I think of the Dark Ages I think of the repudiation of science and the acceptance of superstition and woowoo....and that might makes right, and brutality over logic - all of which we have now.

Your list really makes no sense at all.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:00 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,188 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drungus View Post
Climate change deniers are not anti-science.
Right, they just think the science is flawed.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,811 posts, read 6,940,539 times
Reputation: 20971
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
What surge of immigration? If you mean undocumented folks entering from the southern border, than has been happening for decades. It's not a new surge. Then, as statistics show, most illegal immigration comes from folks overstaying visas. Folks from Europe and other countries.
Where have you been hiding? Even Jeh Johnson from Obamas administration, admitted this was a huge crisis. During the Obama administration, apprehensions under 1,000 per day was good news....anything over 1,000 was a problem. Now Border patrol is handling over 4,000 migrants a day and that is only what they have apprehended. Who knows how many more are sneaking in undetected.

I imagine you are in a state that is not as severely affected as the border states to be in such denial.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:48 PM
 
7,234 posts, read 4,541,552 times
Reputation: 11911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drungus View Post
Flawed and/or agenda driven and/or dishonest.
Here is a perfect example. We can't really believe in "science" anymore. Science has been too often co-opted by those with agenda. So, even if good science is done, it is tough to believe.

Science is becoming a code word for Fascism. If it is termed "science" then you must believe in it strictly, no black or white or shades of gray.

Same with facts, same with media.

What is the truth? Increasingly hard to find. But everyone claims to have it and have the facts / science / data to prove it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,150,494 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
I'm sure lots of people think I'm speaking like an alarmist but I can't stop thinking about this. As far as I'm concerned, it's likely that society is entering a new Dark Ages because of a combination of a culture that tries to brainwash people and the progress of technology. What is a way we prove this wrong?
As archeology and anthropology are proving, the Dark Ages weren't really dark. Essentially, everyone was wrong. The whole King Arthur myth has been debunked. Angles and Saxons did come to Britain, but as immigrants, not invaders or conquerors. Absolutely no evidence of any battles. The evidence shows British tribes and the Angles and Saxons living side-by-side, and more than that, commingling and inter-marrying, adopting some of each other's customs.

Tintagel where King Arthur is claimed to lived was an extraordinarily wealthy society. They drank wine and not just wine, but several varieties of wine, including wine made in Britain -- yes, because of climate change the climate was warm enough to grow wine in Britain and the Romans prized wine imported from Britain, but it's too cold now -- and they drank their wine in glass made in Greece and Rome and had olive oil in pottery jars made in Turkey and Persia.

So, ships continued to sail from the Mediterranean to Britain. Why? Because there was a giant tin mine near Tintagel. In fact, Tintagel might actually mean tin mine in some corrupted language. Tin is scarce in the Mediterranean Region, and you need tin to alloy with copper to make bronze, and weapons, armor and shields were made of bronze, and it was used for other things, too.

That's actually the picture shaping up, thanks to advances in archeology like ground-penetrating radar that can detect the remnants of housing and other structures buried underground by several meters of earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
Entertainment and pop culture hitting a dead-end
It's been dead for decades, so it's not like it just suddenly died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
Media is concentrated by only 5 large companies and blinding people away from the truth
Admittedly, that's a problem, but it's self-inflicted.

You're not obligated to patronize any of those sources for news.

If you patronize those sources, then you're part of the problem.

You have the internet, so you have no excuse. I recommend Adevaratul (The Truth). I realize you don't speak Romanian, but Google will translate the pages for you, just like Google will translate Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Russian, German and French news sources.

Some publications are in English. Der Speigel is.

So, you have no excuse, other than laziness, and it's hypocritical to complain while patronizing the same sources you decry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
Advanced technology allowing spying and invading privacy, and potentially threatening mass job losses
There are counter-technologies to bar or mitigate that.

The implementation of AI and automation will be so incredibly slow, that you won't even notice it.

And, it creates jobs, not kills them.

A robot-welder does replace a human welder, but it also creates 1.3 jobs, so you didn't lose a job and for every three robot-welders you install, you create jobs.

Most people's understanding of AI is on a par with a small rock.

AI requires human interface.

How little you all know.

AI doesn't replace humans, it complements them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
Men are no longer men and women are no longer women
Well, you can thank Liberals for that, but it's nothing a civil war wouldn't solve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
Nuclear war (or even more deadly advanced weapons) is potentially a looming threat again
There's no danger of nuclear war, but if the US continues to be the ass-clown of the world, I wouldn't be surprised if it is secretly decided to off the US by detonating three well-placed 450 kt nuclear warheads about 85 miles above the Earth's surface.

That wouldn't kill any Americans. At least not directly.

However, you will know personally the Dark Ages.

Your electrical grid, your telecommunications grid and most of your electronics will be rendered useless from the electromagnetic pulse.

In the first six months, 300 Million Americans will die of starvation, dehydration, illness, disease, accident, injury, misadventure, hypothermia, violence or by their own hand.

Your food supply will be gone in two weeks. You'll have to forage for food, and such a strike is likely to occur in October/November, so there won't be any food to forage until late Spring 6-8 months later.

Your water supply will be gone in 30 days. Once water treatment plants stop working, all your water is teeming with bacteria, and in particular, Typhus, Cholera and Dysentery.

Even with well-water, there's a risk of contamination, unless you cremate the bodies of Typhoid victims, like the NAZIs did.

If you don't, Typhus will leach into the ground-water and even into aquifers, your well gets contaminated, you get Typhus and die.

Your medications will be gone in 30 days, too.

The rest of the world can't help you.

All the cargo aircraft on Earth can only feed 6-8 Million people for 3-7 days.

That's assuming you can rig a system to siphon aviation fuel from the tank farms and get it to the aircraft.

Once the aviation fuel is gone, and it will be gone in 3-7 days, no more aircraft will be landing in the US.

Commercial cargo aircraft are not capable of air-drops, and they're not capable of in-flight refueling.

You don't have enough aerial tankers in the world to refuel what few military cargo aircraft you have, and they could only feed 1-3 Million people, albeit indefinitely in theory.

Ships can't help.

Your ports are very busy and if a ship could find an open slip, and if the captain is so skilled he can dock the ship without the use of tug boats, and if you can rig a siphon system to refuel the ships with diesel oil, then that would be a miracle.

But, short-lived.

Without electricity, the cranes don't work, and their electronics are damaged, so you cannot off-load the cargo containers of food.

So, yes, the few Million Americans who survive will be in a Dark Age and the Stone Age for about a century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
Living is harder because everything is way more expensive and income hasn't quite caught up
Why would income catch up?

Do you not understand Economics?

Wages rise when there's Monetary Inflation or Wage Inflation.

You currently have neither. Well, you have a bit of Monetary Inflation, about 0.4%.

Wages are not supposed to rise when there's Cost-push Inflation or Demand-pull Inflation.

Cost-push Inflation is 100% you.

You elected the idiots who levied the taxes, laws, regulations and ordinances that drive up the prices of goods and services, and then you have the unmitigated gall to think that you should get a pay raise?

Wrong answer.

You voted for the property tax increase, and now you have to pay more in taxes and have less money to buy other things, and you think you deserve a pay raise?

Wrong answer. That's not how it works.

Demand-pull Inflation is 100% you, too.

The function, the purpose, the raison d'être of Demand-pull Inflation is to prevent the depletion, over-use or over-consumption of resources, goods and services.

Demand-pull Inflation occurs when Demand for any good or service exceeds the Supply of that good or service.

Prices rise.

Prices rise to protect, to conserve, to preserve and prevent the depletion, over-use or over-consumption.

You have three choices:

1) Stop consuming like a freaking locust; or
2) Seek cheaper substitutes; or
3) Increase Supply to match or exceed Demand

That's all you, baby.

If you cannot afford things, that's great.

That means the inviolable Laws of Economics are working as they should.

Why should you get a pay raise?

What right entitles you to consume like a locust and deplete, over-use or over-consume resources, goods and services?

By what logic should you get a pay raise and continue to deplete, over-use or over-consume like a locust?

Explain that, because inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 04-06-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,519,507 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
What surge of immigration?
I cited two:

1. the thousands arriving at the southern US border seeking asylum from central American banana republics, trying to escape the violence of the drug cartels and associated gangs

2. the many thousands more from Africa and the Middle East flowing into Europe in recent years

Quote:
If you mean undocumented folks entering from the southern border, than has been happening for decades. It's not a new surge. Then, as statistics show, most illegal immigration comes from folks overstaying visas. Folks from Europe and other countries.
Yes, that's been occurring for decades and it's not what I meant. Illegal cheap labor is what employers eagerly seek and the govt turns a blind eye to it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,642 posts, read 4,588,321 times
Reputation: 12698
Entertainment and pop culture hitting a dead-end


Entertainment appears to be leading in three directions.

An activist direction, which seems to be having greater influence due to the death of news...but is being rundown to play to a larger paying audience in greater entitlements.

An escapist direction, where things just happen but we get or watch people with above average abilities they just find or are given.
A return to societal direction, complete with entertainment on how to lead by manipulation instead of just leading.

Still, even then we are in a golden age for content creation. Beyond 1000 cable channels we now have youtube, Netflix and many others all competing for new content sources. This may be the end of Hollywood's dominance, but it opens doors for content creators all over....so long as it can be enjoyed via connection.



Media is concentrated by only 5 large companies and blinding people away from the truth
Agreed, the media today plays to sound bites issued because it's fast and easy to digest. Hopefully as media is able to monetize their content once again we will have a renaissance where the media can again bring issues to light and quit being 100% reactionary. I think is actually an opportunity for veteran newsreporters that still know how to get a story.


The advanced technology will inevitably lead to tech being developed to counter this. What is crypto-currency beyond the means to skirt around name attachment to transactions? Privacy will become fashionable again.


The role of the sexes has changed. Violence is a diminishing concern for most people. Protection was best suited for males. The fights of today are verbal, and often lead by females who are better suited for verbal sparring. While it's time to get rid of legal preferences at this point, the war of the sexes will inevitably still go back and forth.



Nuclear war is a threat, but not a big one. If it happens, life will suck for the few surviors. Maybe we'll be on the Mars colony at that point.


After the world wars, most of the industrialized base was destroyed. Poverty was endemic. As countries have pulled themselves together, there is now competition. On the other side, you have those that helped rebuild their nations with the real life skill and experience of doing it, vs those that grow used to being COGS in the machine, and now the machine is eliminating COGS. Even the hated phrase...go to college so you can get a good job....is simply terrible. Go learn a trade, and if it requires college education and a job further learning it first, so be it, then you will be able to have your own enterprise.



Being American was about being free to do these things. We didn't need a charter from a King, or could have a family endlessly drafted into wars. Our station in life was not dependent upon our place in society and family standing. America is no longer the only place that offers this freedom. There's now competition on all fronts even as more people believe someone owes them something.


Freedom to succeed. Freedom to fail. Yes, some get bailouts, but that's not us. We have to forge our own destiny, and hopefully your faith leads you to a method to do it that doesn't run over others in the process.
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,891 posts, read 2,530,379 times
Reputation: 5387
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostee View Post
I'm sure lots of people think I'm speaking like an alarmist but I can't stop thinking about this. As far as I'm concerned, it's likely that society is entering a new Dark Ages because of a combination of a culture that tries to brainwash people and the progress of technology. What is a way we prove this wrong?
  • Entertainment and pop culture hitting a dead-end
  • Media is concentrated by only 5 large companies and blinding people away from the truth
  • Advanced technology allowing spying and invading privacy, and potentially threatening mass job losses
  • Men are no longer men and women are no longer women
  • Nuclear war (or even more deadly advanced weapons) is potentially a looming threat again
  • Living is harder because everything is way more expensive and income hasn't quite caught up

Admittedly it is little Western-centric, but I don't doubt it can apply to the non-West. The West is just what I happen to be more familiar with.
Entertainment and pop culture hitting a dead-end

You mean lack of innovation? Agree Hollywood seems to be losing it's imagination but really, thing always change. Just because you don't like what you're seeing doesn't mean something is at a "dead end". Even if things appear to be stagnating, I just see it as temporary, nothing to write home about.

Media is concentrated by only 5 large companies and blinding people away from the truth

Not even sure what 5 companies you're talking about and why you feel that way but information has never been more widely available to the masses. Along with that comes false information but that's another topic. Blinding people from the truth? What truth is that? There isn't some big conspiracy to "blind you to the truth".

Advanced technology allowing spying and invading privacy, and potentially threatening mass job losses

Spying and privacy is a concern, but that comes with the territory of technology advancing. Wouldn't technology advancing be just the opposite of a "dark age"? Sure technology will take away some jobs, but it'll open up other jobs that didn't exist before (ex. drone pilots). It's easy to quote "potential" job losses but back in the real world unemployment is at a near 20 year low. And yes, I know that doesn't tell the whole story but at least those are real numbers instead of "potential". Real wage growth is largely stagnant the past few decades so that is a cause for concern, but at least it's not going down.

Men are no longer men and women are no longer women

This just has me SMH. All the men I know are men and all the women I know are women. I think this statement says a lot more about YOU than society as a whole. Or maybe you think all people who don't conform to your definition of men and women should be treated like an infectious disease.

Nuclear war (or even more deadly advanced weapons) is potentially a looming threat again

There has always been the threat of nuclear war, albeit a very small one, ever since the Russians acquired nukes so they could match the US. The ability to destroy most life on Earth has been around since the 50s, while total nuclear warheads in the world is way down from their peak during the Cold War. Sure anything can happen, but it's not something new.

Living is harder because everything is way more expensive and income hasn't quite caught up

Like I stated earlier, real wage growth is stagnant, not decreasing, meaning that increases in income and expenses have stayed pretty much stayed the same for the past few decades. So I find this statement to be false. I also find that technology makes our lives easier, not harder. This is of course generally speaking.

Bottom line is that this is another one of these "doomsday" threads that have little basis in reality. Life expectancy if at or near an all time high, advances in sciences are constantly being made, we have more entertainment options than ever before, the world is smaller than ever, I could go on. As time goes on old challenges and problems disappear (ex. polio in the US), while new ones appear (ex. online privacy). If you only focus on the bad of course you'd think the end was near. I on the other hand think this is one of greatest times to be alive. I'm looking forward to the day scientists confirm another Earth like planet that could harbor life. Two decades ago this would have been nonsense, but I think it'll happen in my lifetime.
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:29 PM
 
Location: VA, IL, FL, SD, TN, NC, SC
1,417 posts, read 733,440 times
Reputation: 3439
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawsondude View Post
I think you forget a big one, the growing number of people who seem to be anti-science, whether they are anti-vaxxers or climate change deniers.

That said, I wouldn't say we are entering a dark age. Information is a widely available as it has ever been, and in Western societies people are obtaining higher educational levels than they ever have in the past.
Interesting, I would say that the anti-science people are those who believe in man-made climate-change.

That aside, the thing I find compelling is the way the Internet has allowed may enthusiasts to communicate directly with thoughts leaders in a given area and enhance their understanding on issues.

I truly am amazed at the quality of people I have developed relationships with over the Internet. It has become Gopher on steroids which is the way we old timers did it.
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