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Of course, I did not want this to turn into a "liberal/Democrat vs. conservative/Republican" discussion! That is why I started the title of this thread with the words, "ThinkingAhead.
However, when I started this thread eight days ago, three days BEFORE the election, I had no idea how close the election would be, although I did expect the voting to end in at least some kind of a debacle -- and I was right, I think. The purpose of this thread is just to get opinions on what people think should be done to avoid this kind of disaster* NEXT time.
*I really don't think that "disaster" is TOO much of an exaggeration, although that might be debatable.
P.S. Personally, I don't like to put "limitations" on Great Debates discussion, but that is just my opinion.
Well, no offense, but I think "disaster" and "debacle" is a bit hyperbolic. Things have pretty much worked out the way they usually do, just with more limelight on it due to the closeness in a number of states. There's a couple of things going on here:
1) We're an instant-gratification society. "Election Day is Tuesday, so we should have a 'result' on Tuesday." This is exacerbated by the fact that traditionally, it has happened that way. But...the only reason it has happened that way is that most of the presidential elections in our lifetimes haven't really been all that close, especially pre-2000. This leads us to not quite "understand it" when we have close elections.
2) Even in those not-so-close elections, we weren't getting actual, certified winners which don't happen until weeks later even in a blowout election. When everyone was whining about not knowing Georgia, it had 95% of it's vote counted and recorded. Meanwhile California only had 66%, while Mississippi had 80%. Just that neither of those states was close and therefore could be "called."
Personally, I'd like to see all states do similar to FL this year: vote by mail if you want with ballots processed and counted as they arrive and two weeks (including two weekends) of early in-person voting. Despite massive turnout, things went really smoothly. That being said I still want the states to have the prerogative to determine how they want to run their own elections.
This will make you all shudder, I expect, but here in Australia voting is compulsory. You register when you turn 18 and your name goes onto a roll. You can vote by mail but generally you head up to the local school on a Saturday where there are usually sausage sizzles and cake stalls. You go in, state your name and address, they cross it off a list using a ruler and give you a ballot paper or papers. Pop it in a box and it is all done. No ID needs to be shown. Your name is on the list at all the booths in your area but all they ask is whether you have already voted.
I think it is agreed that it is open to fraud etc but there is not much discussion of changing the system.
They did our census mostly online in 2016 and it was a disaster. The system went down as it was hacked from overseas.
This will make you all shudder, I expect, but here in Australia voting is compulsory. You register when you turn 18 and your name goes onto a roll. You can vote by mail but generally you head up to the local school on a Saturday where there are usually sausage sizzles and cake stalls. You go in, state your name and address, they cross it off a list using a ruler and give you a ballot paper or papers. Pop it in a box and it is all done. No ID needs to be shown. Your name is on the list at all the booths in your area but all they ask is whether you have already voted.
I think it is agreed that it is open to fraud etc but there is not much discussion of changing the system.
They did our census mostly online in 2016 and it was a disaster. The system went down as it was hacked from overseas.
WOW! Thanks for sharing that!
Although I would be tempted to say that is a good idea, I am not sure how that would go over in the U.S.!
P.S. Questions, however What if some wakes up with the flu or has some kind of true last-minute out-of-town emergency that Saturday? Is there a fine if someone doesn't vote?
Well, no offense, but I think "disaster" and "debacle" is a bit hyperbolic. Things have pretty much worked out the way they usually do, just with more limelight on it due to the closeness in a number of states. There's a couple of things going on here:
1) We're an instant-gratification society. "Election Day is Tuesday, so we should have a 'result' on Tuesday." This is exacerbated by the fact that traditionally, it has happened that way. But...the only reason it has happened that way is that most of the presidential elections in our lifetimes haven't really been all that close, especially pre-2000. This leads us to not quite "understand it" when we have close elections.
2) Even in those not-so-close elections, we weren't getting actual, certified winners which don't happen until weeks later even in a blowout election. When everyone was whining about not knowing Georgia, it had 95% of it's vote counted and recorded. Meanwhile California only had 66%, while Mississippi had 80%. Just that neither of those states was close and therefore could be "called."
Personally, I'd like to see all states do similar to FL this year: vote by mail if you want with ballots processed and counted as they arrive and two weeks (including two weekends) of early in-person voting. Despite massive turnout, things went really smoothly. That being said I still want the states to have the prerogative to determine how they want to run their own elections.
In person or absentee by mail. We dont need 20 ways or 20 days to vote. You've got 4 years to find a way to make that work for you.
In no place are there close to twenty different ways to vote. Many places may have twenty days to vote or even longer if the time from requesting a ballot where necessary to having it arrive is counted. I see no problem in this as an effort to make it easier for as many people to vote as possible, which I understand to be the goal. Is there any reason to reverse course to limit voting opportunities?
Although I would be tempted to say that is a good idea, I am not sure how that would go over in the U.S.!
P.S. Questions, however What if some wakes up with the flu or has some kind of true last-minute out-of-town emergency that Saturday? Is there a fine if someone doesn't vote?
Re your PS - yes, there is the possibility of a fine if you don't vote and can't come up with a good excuse. I didn't vote in our last election because - although I felt well in the morning - by lunchtime a chronic medical condition had flared up and I was too sick to go and vote in the afternoon. I got a 'please explain' letter in the mail several weeks later. I wrote down what had happened, mailed it back, and that was the end of it. While my reason for not voting happened to be true, it wouldn't be hard for others to come up with something similar and be let off the hook.
The fine is only $20 or some such small amount.
I personally have never known anyone here in Australia who isn't okay with compulsory voting and there has not been, to my knowledge, any kind of real stir about it in the media. It's really easy - plenty of local places to vote and, as MarisaMay said, there's a relatively festive air about it, with sausage sizzles and cake stalls. Plus it rarely takes more than 15 minutes to line up, place your vote and be out the door.
One day early voting, in person, voter must have been registered for at least 60 days prior to they can be check out and verified. Photo id. No mail in ballots unless in military overseas. A few other exceptions like a disabled person. Max of two days of voting and votes must be counted by midnight the day of voting. Poll watchers must be present during counting.
One day early voting, in person, voter must have been registered for at least 60 days prior to they can be check out and verified. Photo id. No mail in ballots unless in military overseas. A few other exceptions like a disabled person. Max of two days of voting and votes must be counted by midnight the day of voting. Poll watchers must be present during counting.
I feel the opposite.
Voting by mail options should be expanded and every citizen in every state should have the option of voting by mail rather than standing in line particularly during a pandemic.
The only voter ID law that should be acceptable is one where the state is willing to go out to poor neighborhoods and ghettos and make an ID card (free of charge) for every person who has some proof of citizenship. I've been through enormous hassles just trying to get a drivers license or social security card. You have no idea how much that angers me after living in this country for 61 years and paying an enormous amount of taxes. It shouldn't be that hard for me to get ID and it shouldn't be that hard for an impoverished or elderly person either.
The military have no more and no more right to vote by mail than any other group does. What gives you such an idea that they should be preferred? Is it because you think the majority will vote for the candidates that you want?
It is unimportant if the results of an election are not immediately known. What is important is that the process be conducted in a way that gives everyone a reasonable chance to participate.
Here are examples of when a state does not allow reasonable participation in election:
1. Cutting voting stations to the point where lines of an hour or more are necessary to vote.
2. Forcing people to choose between voting and getting sick.
3. Deliberately eliminating places to vote in cities and urban areas where minorities are predominate.
4. Shortening the days that people have to vote in advance of an election. There is no reason why people should not be able to vote as soon as we know who will be on the ballot.
Voting fraud concerns can be alleviated by recounts and random vote auditing. Georgia did a pretty good job of this last election.
If our government is competent, we can have online voting.
We are doing our banking online but we cannot do our voting online.
I agree 100%. We can bank, file taxes, apply for mortgages, buy weapons and alcohol, and pay bills online but we can't vote online.
It makes zero sense.
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