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Old 10-21-2008, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Queens
467 posts, read 1,504,382 times
Reputation: 96

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I agree with you that, in a way, race is a social construct. However, it's a social construct on which this country CHOOSES to rely. It's not just in people's minds; however, it has scientific backing. How would people react if I were to propose a census where race and ethnicity played no part in self-identification? A census where NATIONALITY and NATIONALITY ONLY was used to classify people, like many European countries do? Oh yeah, it would fail miserably in 2008 because the consensus is that race still matters in this country. "Minority" groups would be outraged, and even many members of the WASP "majority" (although I do not think WASPs are a majority anymore) would probably protest. Race and ethnicity are deeply ingrained in this country's pyche and the concepts aren't just going to go away overnight.

It wasn't me who started this thread. It wasn't me who has said things like "I'm not black! I'm Dominican!" And it sure as heck wasn't me who has questioned Barack Obamas race or racial admixture. I am simply a person who can differentiation between race, ethnicity, and culture and take pride in being able to clarify the misconceptions that people have about these facets of humankind that are not only used in this country, but around the world.

We are all human beings before anything, but in order to drop the topic of race, we need to understand it first, and sadly, I know of nowhere in the world that is at that point, this country included.
Very, very true. I have enjoyed reading your posts on this topic.
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,375 posts, read 7,050,333 times
Reputation: 1853
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
There is no separate "white" box on the official census. "White" people check Caucasian just like Arabs/Indians/Pakistanis check Caucasian. Not even blonde-haired, blue-eyed WASPs from Iowa get a "white" box to check.

Anyone of any background has the option of proceeding to questions beyond the race question to identify their background or ancestral origin. Arabs already have the opportunity to mark their country of origin/ancestry if they desire to distinguish themselves from other Caucasian groups. Why mess up the race category when the opportunity to distinguish themselves that Arabs want already exists?

This is similar to the argument that mixed-race individuals should get to check "other." Why check "other" when the census offers you an ample opportunity to mark any and all races to indicate your racial mixture? Contrary to the belief of some people on this forum, the census actually encourages you to check more than one box if it applies. I don't know where you guys are getting the idea that the census tries to force anyone into a box that doesn't accurately represent their race.
I know the census don't force people to chose only one box; you can skip that question if you choose to. On your average application, it usually don't say Caucasion, but more like White(Non-Hispanic). In matter of fact look at any city's racial/ethnic make up right here on city-data and it would say White(non Hispanic). And for your average application or fill out form it usually say something like this:

White(non Hispanic)
Black/African-American
Hispanic(of any race)
Asian/Pacific Islander
Native American
Other/Mix or Two or more race

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 10-21-2008 at 09:48 PM..
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:01 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,279,125 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426 View Post
I know the census don't force people to chose only one box; you can skip that question if you choose to. On your average application, it usually don't say Caucasion, but more like White(Non-Hispanic). In matter of fact look at any city's racial/ethnic make up right here on city-data and it would say White(non Hispanic). And for your average application or fill out form it usually say something like this:

White(non Hispanic)
Black/African-American
Hispanic(of any race)
Asian/Pacific Islander
Native American
Other/Mix or Two or more race
I 100% agree. You're absolutely right that many non-government entities will give the categories that you stated above. In the case you stated above, Indians/Pakistanis/Arabs face an interesting dilemma: choose white based on the fact that "white" people belong to the same racial group as them, or choose "Asian" due to geographical reasons. I agree that this is confusing for the 1.5 BILLION+ Caucasian people in the world who are not of European origin and don't traditionally identify as "white." Thankfully our census does NOT cause this problem. It's the private entities asking about race that cause confusion (I once saw a form where "white" was not clarified by "non-Hispanic" and "Hispanic" was stated as a "race"!), and there unfortunately isn't much anyone can do about that except try to make that agency asking such a question with "bad" categories more informed (enter me!)
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:10 PM
 
7 posts, read 14,874 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiArnez6 View Post
This is SO true, whenever I go back to the Dominican Republic, everyone asks me, why in the American movies (in translation of course ), people who are so obviously "light brown" call themselves "black". I am asked this pretty often. People DO see Obama as "brown" NOT "black", to them "black" people are much darker as seen in Haiti. Anything lighter is seen as a mixture, not "black"

It does seem that this idea of calling all "brown" people "black" is much stronger in the U.S. than outside the U.S.

Dominicans have a reverse one drop rule. Blacks come in different shades. Their theory is ignorant. Why would my light skinned mother and brother say they are not black? That would leave darker skinned children and siblings to identify as a different race from their siblings and parents.
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:31 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 7,496,817 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by nappytop View Post
Dominicans have a reverse one drop rule
yep. And a lot of that is based on historical reasons. People there actually recognize that there should be a mixed category.
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:37 PM
DAS
 
2,530 posts, read 5,827,312 times
Reputation: 1086
If you do a historical research on the reasons for this you will find that in Latin America if you were a slave and had children with the slave masters and the children were whiter they could be freed. This is why whitening up became so important.

In the US you where still a slave no matter how white you appeared and your white parent would deny you in most cases. Some were not denied but this is rare. That is the basic difference of the one drop rule in both cultures.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
78 posts, read 272,688 times
Reputation: 47
For christ sakes,blacks have so many problems with how others view them. We get the idea. obama is a black and he's president.
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Old 11-16-2008, 08:14 AM
 
19 posts, read 77,152 times
Reputation: 19
Default The One-Drop-Rule = White Supremacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nappytop View Post
Dominicans have a reverse one drop rule. Blacks come in different shades. Their theory is ignorant. Why would my light skinned mother and brother say they are not black? That would leave darker skinned children and siblings to identify as a different race from their siblings and parents.
I have not found what you say to be true. I have yet to see a single Black Dominican claim to be white, the only Dominicans claiming to be White are those that are white and those that are mixed but have a very white features. Mixed Dominicans claim to be mixed, that's why official census data from the DR classifies over 70% of the population as Mulatto. The Dominican government has never passed a law, either through its congress/senate or through a ruling via the Supreme Court, making any form of one-drop-rule the law of the land. That is something that did happen in the U.S., an idea that was created by White Americans, legislated by White Americans, enforced by White Americans, and today many African-Americans have internalize it.

In fact, the American one-drop-rule actually reinforces white supremacy, despite most African-Americans that support the theory being oblivious to this.

Whenever I ask an African-American to explain to me why he supports the one-drop-rule, the discussion usually goes something like this:

Me: Why do you consider anyone with one drop of African blood Black, despite them being something else also?

AA: Because Black is Black.

Me: Yeah, but why?

AA: In the past the white man would had kept pure Blacks and Mulattoes as slaves, that's why.

Me: Yeah, but why?

AA: After slavery, the white man equally discriminated against both Blacks and Mulattoes as if both were Black, that's why.

Me: Yeah, but why?

AA: Because every Black person is a little mixed of something, but we are still Black. (then I would ask why again and it will lead to that's how White people see mulattoes and Blacks).

Me: Yeah, but why?

AA: Because that's what the White man legally decided. The White man passed laws, the White dominated Supreme Court said that is the way it will be, that's why.

Me: Yeah, but why?

AA: Because that's what White Americans look at Mulattoes as, that's why anyone with one drop of Black blood is black, period.

Of course, every discussion I've had did not went word for word as shown above, but the underlying message was usually that Blacks believe in the one-drop-rule because either in the past or in the present, thats what White Americans would call a person with known African heritage.

So, the natural question I should ask is the following:

Why would a non-White person justify their belief in the one-drop-rule according to whatever White people think about it?

The only answer for that that I can think of is a subconscious belief that Whites are superior, especially White Americans. Whatever White Americans decided and did in the past or in the present regarding racial identity of non-White peoples is the truth because Whites are superior, always right, the masters of whom non-White people must follow and believe.

That's what I see in this one-drop-rule insistence among many African-Americans.

Most of them don't really see that their belief and justification of the one-drop-rule is based on an inherent base of White Supremacy, and that is used to oppress Mulattoes and discourage Mulattoes from identifying that which they are which is Mulatto.

Anyone that doesn't believe in White Supremacy would not base ANY theory on what White people think or how White people treated people in the past.

Unfortunately, that's how the one-drop-rule is defended, on the basis of what White people think or did in the past the past.

I think its time everyone free themselves from all levels, consciously and subconsciously, of White Supremacy.

One way of doing that is by having mixed and/or Mulatto Americans identify as Mulatto, why? Because that's what they are!

The 'funny' thing in the one-drop-rule argument, is that some of the most fervent and hardcore defenders of the one-drop-rule are "Blacks" that in reality and appearance are Mulattoes!

It's time people realize the racist White Supremacist base the one-drop-rule is based on and how believing in such rule is a subconscious way of accepting White Supremacy.

I know many of you will be shocked at this, some might immediately backlash based on an impulsive reaction to defend the one-drop-rule. I ask for you to wait a few minutes after reading this, try to see in your own mind how justification of the one-drop-rule always leads towards the notion of how White Americans see people of full and/or partial African heritage and then ask yourself:

If I believe in the one-drop-rule because back in the day, that's what White people said I should believe in and even today, that's how White people see me, then is that my way of accepting White Supremacy?

The answer might surprise you.


Last edited by Kaskada; 11-16-2008 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:13 PM
DAS
 
2,530 posts, read 5,827,312 times
Reputation: 1086
Kaskada if you look at old census records going back to the first one were Black people were allowed on the census as individuals that is 1870 you will see classifications of mulatto, black etc. If you trace certain families through the census years you will see some move to other areas of the country and became white if they were light enough. Some people in this country have no idea that they have Black ancestry. I belong to several genealogical societies, it is one of my hobbies. There have been quite a few people that have been reunited with their Black families, they had no idea before.

This is because of the choices that America gave you. Choose Black or White if you said something else you were just treated the same as a Black person, no matter what that other was.

I don't think Black people feel at all inferior to White people. Most actually feel superior because they know that they have survived insurmountable odds, and they are still here. They have organized and changed the laws in that country that allow all people to have equal rights. No other group fought for this before they organized and did just that.

Black peope have went over these arguments about Mulatto, Part Native American and all of that for 100 years before they decided at the beginning of the civil rights era to be just Black and they knew that that includes all those catagories. It made sense because you were not treated fairly unless you you could actually cross over to the white side.

It was different in Latin America.
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:49 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 7,496,817 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
He can just as easily be America's next white president, as he is half white and half black. He will actually be America's first bi-racial President, or first colored president, but he is not America's first black president!!!

Vote Obama: America's First Colored/Bi-Racial President.
I do wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph. However I do not agree with the second - but it's all over now anyway and we've just got to accept and move on.
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