U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-05-2009, 09:20 AM
 
6,896 posts, read 8,668,256 times
Reputation: 7698

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
It depends why the shooting happened. It's all a matter of who was shot and why they were shot. If somebody blasts a dozen holes in the guy who raped his sister, folks ought to buy him a beer and pat him on the back.
Wow, I disagree totally. All that does is make the victim feel even worse -- now she feels responsible for him landing himself in prison.

 
Old 03-05-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 33,938,374 times
Reputation: 4885
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
The papers around here report all crimes on a weekly basis. .
Papers here don't do the same.
 
Old 03-05-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 6,995,981 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Tell us how many DC residents were struck by meteorites last year and I'll find n+1 instances of home invasions.

You know (you admitted it in an above post) that these crimes aren't segregated from other robberies, so you know that finding those statistics will be extremely difficult, if not impossible. At least be honest about that. If you can.

You claimed that the likelihood of being a home invasion victim was the same as being struck by lightning or a falling meteorite. That's absurd, and you know it.

Again, I challenge you to find the number of DC residents struck by meteorites. I guarantee that I'll be able to find more home invasions.
Here are the crime statistics for the Columbia Heights area of the city. It actually looks like crime is down

Crime Type................................... 1/3/2008 to 3/4/2008............. 01/03/2009 to 03/04/2009
Assault Dangerous Weapon (ADW) Excluding Gun 8..............................7
Assault Dangerous Weapon (ADW) Gun 4...........................................3
Homicide 0................................................. ..................................1
Robbery Excluding Gun 12................................................ ...............10
Robbery With Gun 16................................................ ......................4
Sex Abuse 4................................................. ................................0
Total Violent Crime 44................................................ ...................25
 
Old 03-05-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 622,597 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
Wow, I disagree totally. All that does is make the victim feel even worse -- now she feels responsible for him landing himself in prison.

I'd be proud to do ten years if it meant that the person who raped an important lady in my life was dead. Not to mention you first need to find a jury willing to convict.

As a general rule, if I am ever on a jury, I will NEVER vote 'guilty' against a defendant who killed somebody in retaliation for a rape or murder against his family.

I am a firm believer in the concept of jury nullification. If somebody raped your wife and five days later you found the guy and shot him dead, (assuming it was actually the right guy and no innocent bystanders were hurt during your assault on the guy), you could dance up and down in the courtroom, shouting, "I did it! I shot him! Yes I did it!" and I would still say, "not guilty."

It boils down to whether or not it is worth it... I knew a woman once who was raped by multiple thugs and at the trial the parents of the thugs ridiculed her, insulted her, and tried to paint their crap kids as angels. If somebody did that to any sister of mine I would have killed the rapists and killed their parents.

Most likely scenario I'm out of prison 30 years later with book deals and movie deals waiting for me, they're all in the ground, was it worth it? Worst case scenario, I get lethal injection, I die for something I believed in, I go to heaven and I'm with God, they're all dead and in hell (and for what? because they wanted to rape and brutalize?), was it worth it?

There's worse things than prison and there's worse things than dying. Everybody dies, would you rather die before the age of 40-50 for something you believe in, or live to be 90, not believing in anything? Hopefully you're never in a situation where you have to undertake action that may preclude continuing to live, but it helps to recognize there may be situations where honor/faith/duty/etc requires that you risk your life and possibly lose your life.

If the worst things people can do to me is kill me, they better think up something else, since while I value my life quite highly, I recognize there are worse things than dying. There are things (intangible concepts) that I value more than my life. If some random street thug wants to find out what one such concept is (honor/obligation/duty/etc) all he has to do is make a certain move against a family member of mine, and he'll learn all about it.
 
Old 03-06-2009, 05:24 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,226,374 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Tell us how many occurred.
Isn't one enough? Nobody should die or be victimized because of their rights being suppressed. That is exactly what happens when someone is a victim of a crime in a place like DC. Since you cannot possibly prevent all crime its simply immoral to prevent them the means of self protection. That is one reason why we have a second amendment & your law will be overturned.

Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 03-06-2009 at 05:54 PM.. Reason: no personal references please
 
Old 03-06-2009, 05:29 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,226,374 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
Wow, I disagree totally. All that does is make the victim feel even worse -- now she feels responsible for him landing himself in prison.

Then deal with the problem, in this case the problem is the guy going to prison. I think an evaluation might be in order, but killing a rapist I dont think is much of a crime.
Never mind the fact that had she been armed she might not have gotten raped.
Its easy to say no to guns & believe you made a difference. In reality all thats done is the shunning of responsibility so theres someone else to blame when a tragedy happens. Guns & crime are not related any more than guns & crime prevention are.
 
Old 03-06-2009, 05:35 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,226,374 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Here are the crime statistics for the Columbia Heights area of the city. It actually looks like crime is down

Crime Type................................... 1/3/2008 to 3/4/2008............. 01/03/2009 to 03/04/2009
Assault Dangerous Weapon (ADW) Excluding Gun 8..............................7
Assault Dangerous Weapon (ADW) Gun 4...........................................3
Homicide 0................................................. ..................................1
Robbery Excluding Gun 12................................................ ...............10
Robbery With Gun 16................................................ ......................4
Sex Abuse 4................................................. ................................0
Total Violent Crime 44................................................ ...................25

Probably is down, because your criminals mistakenly thought that their victims rights were restored & their chosen profession became a little more hazardous. Statistics dont decide civil rights anyway.
A stronger case could be used to lock up minority groups based on statistics that can be made for gun control.
In reality a gun control fanatic is the same critter as a racist.
You desire to ignore anothers civil rights for personal reasons, who it hurts or kills doesn't matter as long as your paranoia is assuaged.
 
Old 03-06-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 6,995,981 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Isn't one enough? Nobody should die or be victimized because of their rights being suppressed. That is exactly what happens when someone is a victim of a crime in a place like DC. Since you cannot possibly prevent all crime its simply immoral to prevent them the means of self protection. That is one reason why we have a second amendment & your law will be overturned.
One home invasion a year certainly isn't a rationale to overturn DC's gun law, given how many more gun deaths would result from domestic violence and suicide.

Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 03-06-2009 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: edited for deleted material
 
Old 03-06-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,226,374 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
One home invasion a year certainly isn't a rationale to overturn DC's gun law, given how many more gun deaths would result from domestic violence and suicide.

Sure it is. You dont like it but letting people be crime victims to stop suicide it ridiculous. Suicide is NOT a societal problem, crime is. Society has no real need to protect us from suicide since you cant be a victim of suicide.
To let your city be a violent crime haven in order to prevent suicide is simply stupid. As is your domestic violence crap. Not that it does not exist, but that it does not outweigh the right of any individual to protect him or herself.

Only one thing is certain in DC, that is the fact that your gun laws are a contributor to your violent crime & not a deterrent.
Well one more thing is certain, they will be overturned.
 
Old 03-06-2009, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 622,597 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
One home invasion a year certainly isn't a rationale to overturn DC's gun law, given how many more gun deaths would result from domestic violence and suicide.

Domestic violence is not a societal problem. Psychological crap about identifying with the abuser, Stockholm’s syndrome, internalizing abusive things until you blame yourself, etc, aside, ultimately a person decides whether or not to continue being the victim of domestic violence. All outside parties (government, charities, friends, neighbors, etc) can do is to be there to help the person, WHEN THEY WANT THE HELP. Cracking down on guns does absolutely nothing to help stop domestic violence.



As far as gun control in Canada goes, they have this neat little idea that they can stop abusers from getting guns by requiring the spouse to sign off on a gun permit application. Imagine a woman is being brutally abused by her husband and he asks her to sign his gun paperwork. Does the Canadian believe she'll actually refuse? Imagine the woman asks him to sign her paperwork, do they believe he'll actually help her obtain a firearm?

Does that make sense to you?


As for suicide, that is a personal issue, not a societal problem.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top