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Old 03-16-2009, 07:16 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,916,474 times
Reputation: 12291

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Yeah the best I can do is quote the Supreme Court's opinion on the issue. The best you can do is make up stuff of no relevance at all.
You seem to place a great deal of faith and trust in the judicial arm of the government. Actually, you place a great deal of faith and trust in the government as a whole. As if the government is the end all be all of our lives. Personally, I have NO faith in politicians. Especially appointed justices. Our founding fathers had no faith in an overly powerful central government either, thus they put the checks and balances of the Constitution in place. The Second Amendment is there for a reason. A good reason. General Lord Gage ring any bells? Lexington and Concord? How easy some forget how this nation was born. Do you honestly believe the Bill of Rights to be unecessary now? You cannot start hacking pieces out of the Constitution and expect that our liberty will endure. The very thought is frightening. Such a mentallity is very hard to actually wrap my brain around. Keep placing that unconditional trust in the government, they just LOVE folks that can't think for themselves. Oh, they will take care of ya sparky. Just keep giving up those rights. It's all for the greater good aye? . I'm sure all of our "gun toting" forefathers would agree, it's just the right thing to do. I'm sure they appreciate their sacrifices being discounted as trivial and meaningless.
They no doubt envisioned a time when the Constitution would just no longer be relevant, and an all powerful central authority would just take the reins and saddle up. Lol, I'm certain they would totally approve of our general citizenry having no concept of skill at arms, and the central government being the sole means of the common defense. You honestly just flat don't get it. If you truly are representitive of the majority of citizens in our nations capitol this country is in deep trouble indeed.........

 
Old 03-16-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,088,971 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
You seem to place a great deal of faith and trust in the judicial arm of the government. Actually, you place a great deal of faith and trust in the government as a whole. As if the government is the end all be all of our lives. Personally, I have NO faith in politicians. Especially appointed justices. Our founding fathers had no faith in an overly powerful central government either, thus they put the checks and balances of the Constitution in place. The Second Amendment is there for a reason. A good reason. General Lord Gage ring any bells? Lexington and Concord? How easy some forget how this nation was born. Do you honestly believe the Bill of Rights to be unecessary now? You cannot start hacking pieces out of the Constitution and expect that our liberty will endure. The very thought is frightening. Such a mentallity is very hard to actually wrap my brain around. Keep placing that unconditional trust in the government, they just LOVE folks that can't think for themselves. Oh, they will take care of ya sparky. Just keep giving up those rights. It's all for the greater good aye? . I'm sure all of our "gun toting" forefathers would agree, it's just the right thing to do. I'm sure they appreciate their sacrifices being discounted as trivial and meaningless.
They no doubt envisioned a time when the Constitution would just no longer be relevant, and an all powerful central authority would just take the reins and saddle up. Lol, I'm certain they would totally approve of our general citizenry having no concept of skill at arms, and the central government being the sole means of the common defense. You honestly just flat don't get it. If you truly are representitive of the majority of citizens in our nations capitol this country is in deep trouble indeed.........
The Supreme Court is the final word on what rights are or are not conferred by the 2nd amendment. So yes, even if I disagree, I put weight by the decision. I know there are those who live in a fantasy world where they believe individual interpretations of the Constitution are allowed.

I suspect the idiot from California who was arrested in DC last week with a truck full of weapons is from your camp. He's now cooling his heels in jail.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,257,121 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post

Being armed does not repel invaders, look at Afghanistan.

Ya still insist that guns will automatically repel an invasion?
?
being armed sure is one hell of a deterrent.

What sane leader would send his troops into a country where it is only known that 38+% of a country are armed. (remember, most of our country does not track its gun ownerships, it is said that there are near 46-47% of the population with at least one firearm.)

and let me remind you of um... the 80's and Russia in Afghanistan... Russia soon collapsed after being bogged down trying to quell the armed populace of that country.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 08:48 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,916,474 times
Reputation: 12291
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
The Supreme Court is the final word on what rights are or are not conferred by the 2nd amendment. So yes, even if I disagree, I put weight by the decision. I know there are those who live in a fantasy world where they believe individual interpretations of the Constitution are allowed.

I suspect the idiot from California who was arrested in DC last week with a truck full of weapons is from your camp. He's now cooling his heels in jail.
My camp? I live in Nevada, not California. California has extremely repressive gun laws. You would fit right in in "that camp". Lol, once again you resort to insults.
I suppose if our Founding Fathers had the same attitude as you we would no doubt still be under British rule. Unquestioning acceptance of whatever interpretation of what our "rights" are by the central authority. No, we don't think that way in "my camp". And we are far from being "idiots". We believe in the principals this nation was founed on, we believe in a martial tradition and spirit, we are individualists , yes, but we are citizens of this country first, and we believe that it is our RIGHT to "provide for the common defense", and our DUTY as well. The idiots that would have I and those like me "cooling our heels in jail" for believing thus should rexamine their position. You leap to insult us, and expound on your own intelligenge and rationalism, call us "backwards" and "ignorant". I question your intelligence right back, and if things go the way you wish them to, backwards will be in your face and up to your eyeballs. I will continue to honor the memory of our Founding Fathers. Both my son and I will continue to develop a proficiency with arms and fight to see that tradition carries on. The tradition of the American Rifleman. . Yep, happyness is an American made service rifle in .308 or 30 06
 
Old 03-16-2009, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,380,187 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
It sure beats comparin' the size of guns.

 
Old 03-16-2009, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,040 posts, read 10,223,468 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Yep because many (white?) Americans still make a big issue out of it.
FYI a black president living in the White House would’ve been impossible 25 years earlier.
Most Americans don't make an issue of race. Most Americans look at the content of one's character more than their skin color. Unfortunately, there are some that don't, and the media in the U.S. exploits this fact to facilitate their own agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
I guess ya aren’t aware that slavery is slavery.
You brought up the subject of "sex slavery" in a previous post. Prostitution is pretty much the same thing. By the way, that's "legal" in your country, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
But I guess this is the reason why so many Americans are for the right to carrying guns; Americans keep forgetting (or is it denying?) that guns also cause a plethora of problems.
Guns do not cause any problems at all. It's people that cause problems. People will continue to cause problems with or without guns or other weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Rest assured that if the American government ever turned against its own people gun-carrying citizens won't pose a problem to their military toys of destruction.
You make the assumption that the U. S. Military would go along with that plan. Many would not. They would join forces with the American people to stand up against the tyranny of the government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Heck, I'll bet the military will waterboard the American anti-government rebel 'terrorists' to get info so they can bomb these anti-government rebels out of existence.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The only reason why Americans can carry arms is because it is tradition, but tradition is a stupid reason to make it a law.
Actually, you're wrong again. One reason why Americans can carry arms is because it's the law. The "tradition" is the result of the law. The law is not the result of the "tradition."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
What tradition will be passed as a law next?
Female circumcision?
Give me a break!
 
Old 03-16-2009, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,040 posts, read 10,223,468 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
So ya pretend that the 1st American settlers weren't European?
Or are ya now also denying the fact that America isn't a Christian nation, like the European nations are?
How in the world did you come to these conclusions? This has absolutely nothing to do with what Greatday posted.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,040 posts, read 10,223,468 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
And I'm saying that your constitution is based on religion and they even included the freedom of religion.
Most settlers fled to America because they were prosecuted for religion in their home country.
If there had been no freedom of religion in America most European settlers would've stayed where they were.
The U. S. Constitution is not based on religion. Some U. S. laws are based on values that were common to most religions. This is far from the same thing. The first amendment to the U. S. Constitution was created to prohibit the government from passing laws restricting the freedom of religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The only reason white Americans got the right to carry arms was to drive Indians of 'their' land (read: kill off the natives).
It was all right for 'Christian' Americans to kill the natives because they weren't Christian anyawayz.
Where do you come up with this nonsense?
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:23 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,524,507 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
and let me remind you of um... the 80's and Russia in Afghanistan... Russia soon collapsed after being bogged down trying to quell the armed populace of that country.
That simply is because Russia made the same mistakes as the Americans during the Vietnam war.


Originally Posted by jdavid93225
Quote:
Most Americans don't make an issue of race. Most Americans look at the content of one's character more than their skin color. Unfortunately, there are some that don't, and the media in the U.S. exploits this fact to facilitate their own agenda.
Like I posted before: your constitution looks great on paper unfortunately the real world doesn't work that way.
Quote:
By the way, that's "legal" in your country, isn't it?
Yeah, in order to stop human trafficking.
If prostitution in The Netherlands would become illegal again, human trafficking will increase. Now prostitution is regulated and since prostitutes pay taxes the police have no problem dealing with pimps and other related crime.
Quote:
You make the assumption that the U. S. Military would go along with that plan. Many would not. They would join forces with the American people to stand up against the tyranny of the government.
History proves otherwise; your American government (and their military) has committed many crimes against humanity.
Examples are:
- Unlawful detention of Americans of Japanese descent during WWII.
- Forcing the Native Americans to live on reservations.
- Upholding racial segregation.
- Torturing suspects of terrorist (they might not even be real terrorists).
- Guantanamo Bay
These are just a few samples of crimes against freedom.
Oh Yeah, and I forgot all about your civil war.
Quote:
Guns do not cause any problems at all. It's people that cause problems. People will continue to cause problems with or without guns or other weapons.
And guns only increase the effect and size of the problems humanity automatically causes.
Quote:
Actually, you're wrong again. One reason why Americans can carry arms is because it's the law. The "tradition" is the result of the law. The law is not the result of the "tradition."
LoL, people carried weapons long before there were guns and the philosophy of why they carried weapons hasn't changed.
America is just 1 of the few nations were guns already existed before the nation was founded.
Quote:
The first amendment to the U. S. Constitution was created to prohibit the government from passing laws restricting the freedom of religion.
And if America hadn't done this, no European settler would have immigrated to the US.
The only reason freedom of religion is in your constitution is to prevent the different Christian denominations to go at war at each other over a different interpretation of the Bible.
Quote:
How in the world did you come to these conclusions? This has absolutely nothing to do with what Greatday posted.
Simply because America is as Christian as any other European nation (or colony) at that time.
Otherwise the black Americans would be equal to the white Americans, which at that time they weren't.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:30 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,453,647 times
Reputation: 47456
no we do not. why control citizens with no criminal record as to firearms.
why spend millions trying to do it
you know the answer.
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