U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 09-09-2008, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,444,336 times
Reputation: 1500

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
What consequences would you suggest? Build more prisons in order to make room for these offenders? Thing is, it's never going to be hard to get a gun, just like it will never be difficult to get illegal drugs. If gun control laws went into effect, and I was ordered to surrender my weapons, you know what I'd do? I'd go turn them in like a good little law-abiding citizen, and then I'd hit the streets and have myself an untraceable weapon within the hour, because I refuse to be without some sort of home protection.
Why would you have to surrender your weapon? If it is regeistared the proper way then why would that occur?

I just don't believe in the "oh well, it is so easy to get guns now so why try to fix it" mentality... The fact of the matter is young people are needlessly killing people and even if that crime is curbed a bit, I think it is worth it...

 
Old 09-09-2008, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,863,957 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle* View Post
Why would you have to surrender your weapon? If it is regeistared the proper way then why would that occur?
Because depending on how severe the gun control laws implemented were, we might end up like Britain or Australia where it's very difficult for a normal citizen to own a firearm.

Quote:
I just don't believe in the "oh well, it is so easy to get guns now so why try to fix it" mentality... The fact of the matter is young people are needlessly killing people and even if that crime is curbed a bit, I think it is worth it...
This is not a gun control problem, this is a social problem. It's not because guns are available that young people kill each other. It's because of economic problems and familial problems. Lack of good, solid parenting (and it doesn't have to be a two-parent traditional family to provide this). Lack of good jobs and activities available to teens and young adults. I could go on and on. It's not the guns that are causing problems, it's how these kids are being raised. Take away the guns, and these kids will still have lousy parents, and the kids will find some other way to commit violence on each other. Killing doesn't require a firearm.
 
Old 09-09-2008, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,444,336 times
Reputation: 1500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Because depending on how severe the gun control laws implemented were, we might end up like Britain or Australia where it's very difficult for a normal citizen to own a firearm.



This is not a gun control problem, this is a social problem. It's not because guns are available that young people kill each other. It's because of economic problems and familial problems. Lack of good, solid parenting (and it doesn't have to be a two-parent traditional family to provide this). Lack of good jobs and activities available to teens and young adults. I could go on and on. It's not the guns that are causing problems, it's how these kids are being raised. Take away the guns, and these kids will still have lousy parents, and the kids will find some other way to commit violence on each other. Killing doesn't require a firearm.

Like I said, I am not for banning guns, so it would not be difficult for a normal RESPONSIBLE person to obtain a gun and keep it/use it in a RESPONSIBLE and legal way. They just need to go through a few steps. Where is the crime in that? Nobody is removing guns from good people, just establishing rules to abide by...

Secondly, removing guns out of the hands of irresponsible young people would curb killing without a doubt. How could it not? no gun = no shooting.

I think "johnny" would think twice about popping "frank" if it took him 2/4 weeks to obtain a hand gun... Time to think about things, backround check will be performed...etc etc...

Trying to change the way people parent is next to impossible. Trying to establish strict guidelines as to how a person obtains a fire arm is a little more obtainable.

If I had an 18 year old that wanted a gun for hunting...that is fine. But there needs to be rules and classes to be had for sure. He needs to know there is a ton of responsiblity when owning a gun... I don't want him/her to be able to just walk into a shop and get a gun.
 
Old 09-09-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
1,719 posts, read 6,029,109 times
Reputation: 781
IF we taught our children a bit better and spent more time...then, we wouldn't need all these laws and BS.

But...we send our kids off to a public school all day, slave away at our "jobs" and occasionally spend time on the weekends if we're lucky. Laws won't change this...we've gone down a wayward path already...how about fixing that? Oh too hard ya say?
Well let's pass some laws...and add one that says you must spend min. 5 hours a day with your child. Stupid....'Yep!
 
Old 09-09-2008, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,863,957 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle* View Post
Like I said, I am not for banning guns, so it would not be difficult for a normal RESPONSIBLE person to obtain a gun and keep it/use it in a RESPONSIBLE and legal way. They just need to go through a few steps. Where is the crime in that? Nobody is removing guns from good people, just establishing rules to abide by...

Secondly, removing guns out of the hands of irresponsible young people would curb killing without a doubt. How could it not? no gun = no shooting.
Ever hear of a zip gun?

Quote:
I think "johnny" would think twice about popping "frank" if it took him 2/4 weeks to obtain a hand gun... Time to think about things, backround check will be performed...etc etc...
This is a point I'm trying to get across -- a criminal would not follow the laws in regard to any of this. It's been proven time and time again with the "war on drugs".

Quote:
Trying to change the way people parent is next to impossible. Trying to establish strict guidelines as to how a person obtains a fire arm is a little more obtainable.
You're quite right, we can't change how people parent their children without getting extremely intrusive on personal freedoms. However, rather than put all that effort and money into more laws and more enforcement, I would much rather see the focus and money put into social programs for the people most affected by gun violence. Knowledge and education are the key, not crushing regulation.
 
Old 09-09-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,444,336 times
Reputation: 1500
No, I have never heard of a zip gun...but I do know that the kids in Detroit opt for AK-47's moreso...

I really can't compare the war on drugs to guns...Drugs are completely illegal. Guns are not. There are no strict rules on drugs...You would not abide by certain rules to obtain a bag of herion...so that is really comparing apples to oranges...


And nobody said crushing regulation on anything...your putting words in my mouth and painting a much different picture... There are rules and guidelines to drive a car, why not establish them with gun ownership as well? You can drive and drive any car you want...but there is an age limit, a 2 week training class, a final test and viola...you have an open road to drive with whatever kind of car you want...Why can't we do the same with guns?
 
Old 09-09-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,930,262 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
What you fail to address is the point that if they're criminals, they aren't going to care if they have a legal weapon or not. Guns will always be available, legally or otherwise. If you impose "massive control" on gun ownership, only law-abiding citizens are going to honor those steps. The gangstas are still going to get shot up, and the criminals will still have guns.

This is what I always worry about when they talk gun-control. Law abiding citizens are the only ones who register their guns. The criminals would continue to get them exactly the way they get them now, illegally.

I was raised in a house with guns and we were all taught to use them and always told to treat any gun as a loaded gun, and because hubby is law enforcement we have them in our house. All of our children know how to shoot and have been taught gun safety. That being said except for hubbys work gun all the rest are locked up.
 
Old 09-09-2008, 11:23 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
Reputation: 1846
Perhaps it would be easier to nail the problem in smaller chunks. If there is a loop hole in PA's laws that allow for unregistered guns to enter NY then addressing the loophole would be key. If one of the problems is gun dealers that are operating on the sly then maybe more stringent standards and watch guards should be placed on the dealers.

One way to make it more uniform is to do something as screwy as they did in raising the drinking age to 21 by stating that you cannot have this little money over here unless you raise that age or in this case close the loophole, or whatnot.

Just saying.
 
Old 09-09-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,863,957 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle* View Post
No, I have never heard of a zip gun...but I do know that the kids in Detroit opt for AK-47's moreso...
Zip gun: Improvised firearm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My point here being that making it hard or impossible for someone to obtain an AK-47 would not prevent them from shooting someone.

Quote:
I really can't compare the war on drugs to guns...Drugs are completely illegal. Guns are not. There are no strict rules on drugs...You would not abide by certain rules to obtain a bag of herion...so that is really comparing apples to oranges...
Okay, if you can't grok that comparison (which is actually quite a good one by the way) then compare it to prohibition.


Quote:
And nobody said crushing regulation on anything...your putting words in my mouth and painting a much different picture...
Ah, well I took your words of "massive regulation" to mean a lot of strict laws, in effect crushing most gun ownership. I think it's an appropriate use of the word, but we can throw it out and use massive instead if you prefer.

Quote:
There are rules and guidelines to drive a car, why not establish them with gun ownership as well? You can drive and drive any car you want...but there is an age limit, a 2 week training class, a final test and viola...you have an open road to drive with whatever kind of car you want...Why can't we do the same with guns?
When was the last time you purchased a firearm? Most states you can't just walk in, buy one, and walk out. There are already many regulations in place, and the people who observe them are law-abiding citizens, not the criminals.
 
Old 09-09-2008, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,444,336 times
Reputation: 1500
I guess we just disagree... When I see a problem I want to try and fix it... Not just sit here and shrug my shoulders and say "well, it didn't work before so why even bother"... I have no problem with responsible people that have firearms but I do have problems with minors (and adults for that matter) that have them and just shoot to kill...people. I honestly can't believe you just don't see a problem with that...

Do you have ANY suggestions on how to fix this problem or no?

*Something* needs to be done...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top