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Old 09-11-2008, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
Reputation: 1925

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Quote:
Originally Posted by potstirrer View Post
Or even if you are facing a criminal & instead of just shooting them & wounding them so they can't attack you you again offload a full round in to them & kill them before they can shoot you. Doesn't that make you just as bad as the criminal because then you are not really using it for self defense you are then using it to kill a person which no matter how you look at it is murder.
If you wish to own a fire arm for self defense then surely a had gun will suffice as there are ways to wound a person enough to be safe with out killing them & with the proper training then you can learn how to use that weapon simply for self defense.
If someone chooses to come into my house illegally, then they have willingly placed their life into my hands. If I am forced to shoot someone, I will not be thinking about trying to merely wound them -- I am going to shoot to stop them in their tracks. If they die as a result, I won't be happy to have killed someone but I also will not have much remorse about it. As far as I'm concerned, my safety in my own house takes precedence over the safety of a criminal making an illegal entrance.

 
Old 09-11-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by no one special View Post

I would never turn in my guns.
I would depending on the circumstances, but I'd have untraceable replacements within the same day. Why let them know you're a subversive?
 
Old 09-11-2008, 11:19 AM
 
162 posts, read 426,654 times
Reputation: 134
Default The facts speak for themselves

The facts speak for themselves - if you have a gun in your home, you are 250 times more likely to shoot either yourself or a loved one, than you are to be able to 'defend yourself!'

For every one householder who has succeeded in using a gun against an intruder, there are 200 who have had their own weapon used against them.

The easy availability of automatic weapons makes school mass shootings almost an annual event.

You are not living on some kind of treacherous frontier!

As for the stuff about 'right to bear arms,' it's fascinating that gun lovers always omit the crucial part about a well regulated militia! You have militia!

I live in the UK where we have strict gun control laws, thank God - sure, some 35 low-lifes a a year or thereabouts die in gun killings, but that's about 00000.3 of the number in the US.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 11:31 AM
 
326 posts, read 1,290,510 times
Reputation: 187
I believe guns should not have a space in our lives. There are very few places in the US where having a gun could actually be necessary or at least very useful. If we think we should have guns for safety issues, I am afraid guns have made us much less safe on this continent. Gun control is much more strictly regulated in Europe and the results are evident. And those countries with a more tolerant attitude towards gun, like GB, are less safe than others. How many of us have chickens to protect, bears in our backyard. And how many can claim they keep a gun for that reason? On the other hand, still several people like to hunt and hunting is a right, although regulated. Int hat case, I do agree that a person should be trained and checked and retrained to make sure he keeps his gun secure and not accessible to children.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 11:31 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,414,651 times
Reputation: 4015
Quote:
Originally Posted by amyalta View Post
The facts speak for themselves - if you have a gun in your home, you are 250 times more likely to shoot either yourself or a loved one, than you are to be able to 'defend yourself!'

For every one householder who has succeeded in using a gun against an intruder, there are 200 who have had their own weapon used against them.

The easy availability of automatic weapons makes school mass shootings almost an annual event.

You are not living on some kind of treacherous frontier!

As for the stuff about 'right to bear arms,' it's fascinating that gun lovers always omit the crucial part about a well regulated militia! You have militia!

I live in the UK where we have strict gun control laws, thank God - sure, some 35 low-lifes a a year or thereabouts die in gun killings, but that's about 00000.3 of the number in the US.

So your in another country wishing to take away my constitutional right?


I don't understand this.....The people that wish to ban guns are more than welcome to put a sign in their front yard that says you support gun control and the banning of guns.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvolin View Post
I believe guns should not have a space in our lives. There are very few places in the US where having a gun could actually be necessary or at least very useful.
Oh really? Eight years ago, I woke up in the middle of the night to someone coming in my back door. I'm a female living alone and so I felt threatened. I pulled my 9mm out from under my bed, and prepared to shoot whomever came into my bedroom. I heard someone walking around in the hall outside my bedroom door. I chambered a round (which happens to make a very distinctive noise) and said calmly "That's the last sound you're going to hear if you don't get your ass out of my house." The last sound I heard from them was running feet and the back door being flung open.

Thank you very much, but I'd rather keep my gun than be unarmed and helpless in my own house.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,560,289 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
If someone chooses to come into my house illegally, then they have willingly placed their life into my hands. If I am forced to shoot someone, I will not be thinking about trying to merely wound them -- I am going to shoot to stop them in their tracks. If they die as a result, I won't be happy to have killed someone but I also will not have much remorse about it. As far as I'm concerned, my safety in my own house takes precedence over the safety of a criminal making an illegal entrance.

Why would you feel compelled to shoot to kill a teenager who is stealing your television? Would you do so if you, in fact, saw that the person is a teenager?

I would say your reaction isn't fitting the nature of the offense being perpetrated against you, and it would certainly be seen that way in court. Does a conviction for theft of a TV result in the death penalty in any US state? If not, then why would you have the right to kill another person who is trying to steal your TV?

Last edited by ParkTwain; 09-11-2008 at 01:32 PM..
 
Old 09-11-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,560,289 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
how is banning semi-automatic weapons going to increase the safety of americans?

Ask the victims who got shot up in the mall in Missouri by the teenager (already under doctor's care for psychiatric disorders) who took his step-uncle's M-16 to perpetrate both mass murder and "suicide by police." (He succeeded only in the former.) These incidents are reported in the national news practically every month. Do you not notice them?

In that situation, what contributed to the end result (shooting innocent members of the public in a shopping mall):

* There were no metal detectors to prevent entry into the mall by a person carrying a large dangerous firearm.
* The teenager's parents weren't successful at impressing upon the teenager's mind that it is unacceptable to perpetrate mass murder with a powerful firearm.
* The teenager's step-uncle wasn't successful at securing, if he in fact tried, the M-16 rifle and its ammo from the teenager.
* The step-uncle owned and kept an M-16 at his residence.

Last edited by ParkTwain; 09-11-2008 at 01:37 PM..
 
Old 09-11-2008, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
I would say your reaction isn't fitting the nature of the offense being perpetrated against you
Then don't break into my house.

Quote:
and it would certainly be seen that way in court.
Incorrect. I could give many, MANY examples of homeowners killing intruders and the courts calling it justifiable self-defense. If I'm in fear of personal injury from someone in my house, I'm allowed to defend myself. They die? Not my problem, other than a messy cleanup bill.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,560,289 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Then don't break into my house.



Incorrect. I could give many, MANY examples of homeowners killing intruders and the courts calling it justifiable self-defense. If I'm in fear of personal injury from someone in my house, I'm allowed to defend myself. They die? Not my problem, other than a messy cleanup bill.

Courts calling it? No. Juries calling it? Yes.

If your fear of personal injury isn't based on facts and reasonable expectation known at that time, then your behavior in response could also be considered criminal. If an unarmed teenager in your home is holding your TV and you encounter him while brandishing a gun, and then you shoot him without saying a word to him and without listening to what he says to you, I would say you have committed a crime. Of course, that is hypothetical, and practically speaking all the relevant facts might not be ascertainable after the fact by an investigator. So the gun owner in that sitaution would have a great advantage over the thief. What the gun owner chooses to do with that advantage would be a matter of conscience. Whether the justice system would prosecute you for your actions would depend on the facts of the case that could be ascertained after the fact.

If it were my teenaged son who was discovered while committing that crime, I would not congratulate you about your "self-defense" decision. I would remind you that you went beyond the facts at that time because you were not IN FACT in personal danger from that teenager.

Last edited by ParkTwain; 09-11-2008 at 01:49 PM..
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