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Old 11-18-2008, 04:37 PM
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,560,289 times
Reputation: 1023


More evidence of serious problems in the present "market-based" US healthcare system:
Based on a Physicians Foundation survey, primary care physicians expect to cut back or quit.
Many doctors plan to quit or cut back: survey | U.S. | Reuters
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:34 PM
Status: "Done with the 100s (hopefully)?" (set 22 days ago)
Location: East Central Phoenix
5,411 posts, read 8,293,761 times
Reputation: 5760
Originally Posted by Camden Northsider View Post
I am for Universal Healthcare, and for a number of reasons:

(1) Morality: I feel that it is completely and totally immoral of institutions in our country to be profiting immensely from services (or lack thereof) that are centered around basic human needs. Much like food taxes, privatized healthcare systems disproportionately burden the poor and working (and middle) classes.
The last thing that I want to see is a system being created on the basis of "morality". That kind of logic is comparable to the agenda of the Republican party's religious wing ... and we all know how much of a failure their "faith based" policies have turned out to be! Besides, how is it "moral" to force every taxpayer to subsidize those who are unable or unwilling to pay for this kind of care themselves? A socialized health care system would burden the average taxpayer even further. In this economy, we don't need more money taken from us to be thrown into a system where bureaucrats are in control. We have enough of that already with the public schools!

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider View Post
(2) Outrageous Costs of Healthcare in America today: Not only are we all already paying for a version of socialized medicine in America, we are paying much more exorbitant amounts than we should be as our tax dollars are lining the pockets of many private industries that, not coincidentally, happen to be some of the richest (with the highest paid executives) in the country (healthcare, insurance, pharmaceutical, etc.) - in regards to the previous talks of "administration costs" of UH, the highest "administration costs" possible are those that we pay now.
I'll admit the current system is far from perfect, but the solution isn't to dump privatized health care for a socialized one. You admitted that we're already paying for a version of socialized medicine ... and frankly, that's part of the problem! The average taxpayers are paying for medicaid, and other forms of subsidized health programs, while paying premiums on their own health insurance. Talk about a double whammy! One reason medical costs are so high as they are is all the frivolous lawsuits brought against providers. If we have to have any kind of reform, I'd much see it in the LEGAL area of the current system.

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider View Post
(3) Universal Healthcare = Business Growth/ Job Creation: As a hiring manager, when preparing annual budgets I factor in that our benefits costs will average app. 25% of our workforce's salaries (e.g. if a person makes $40K a year, on average we will pay app. $10K for health benefits for that employee). Our company's benefits aren't great - a single mom with one child will still have to pay close to $400 in premiums each month, so total investment in health benefits for that employee (both employer and employee) is about $15K per year. Compare this example to the German example where both employees and employer pay 6.5% (totalling 13%) of the individual's salary - between employee and employer at my organization, it's about 37.5% (or if you consider the total payment for health benefits as "salary", meaning the person making 40K a year's salary is actually 55K/yr - it would still be at over 27%). With universal healthcare of any type, not only would we be able to pay our employees a lot more (assumedly much farther above and beyond what the increase in taxes would be), we could similarly afford to create new positions and jobs immediately despite the faltering economy. Think of what the impact would be on small businesses, or any entrepreneurial individual thinking about starting their own business - how many persons/ families have likely avoided going into business for themselves (or expanding a current business) because they couldn't afford to cover private healthcare costs? I think the impact of universal healthcare on our economy would be astounding...
Many of us have good health care coverage as it is through the private system ... and many of us like the idea of choosing our own doctors. I understand the need for some change ... but the kind of change you & many liberals/Democrats propose would result in drastic change for most of us, and that would not be change for the better. Honestly, I want my coverage to remain exactly the same because I'm completely satisfied with it.

Furthermore, you bring up the examples of the single mothers, and the self employed who are struggling with health care costs. Frankly, that shouldn't be my problem! Everybody has a choice as to their own lifestyle ... however, their choices shouldn't result in burdening the government further with funding services that can & should be paid for on an individual basis. If the single mother is swamped with medical expenses, maybe she should have put off having children until she could afford all the aspects on her own terms. Same goes for the self employed person. If it's cost prohibitive, you don't do it! Remember, health care is not a right. Even if it was, with rights come responsibilities!
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:06 PM
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,211,064 times
Reputation: 2506
In reading this forum, I wondered where anyone got the idea that someone can bring Diabetes upon themselves?
Being obese or eating bad foods can worsen Diabetes, but does not cause it. Diabetes is a genetic disease, and there are people who took good care of themselves and wound up with it.

So punishing people with a disease by taking away medical care is really ridiculous.
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