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Old 09-12-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,144,848 times
Reputation: 4989

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Thanks Katz...I'll definitely read the link you provided later on tonight. Looking at the numbers quickly, it appears that my family will be paying 200% more in premiums if self-employed people's incomes are considered in the employees' income, unless self-employed spouses should go get their own at the full 13%. Currently, my premiums calculate to be at 6.5% of my income, excluding co-pays, coinsurance and deductibles. My entire family is covered including my self-employed husband. In my case, the German system is tremendously more expensive than just the "little bit" that some proponents claim.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:17 PM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,115 posts, read 10,033,334 times
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The private insurances are not dependent on people's income, that is why people with high earnings buy private insurance. They are set fees. And on top of that, if you have private insurance, there are no co-pays at all... and if you didn't visit your doctor during the year, you are now refunded up to 3 months of your premium. For someone who goes to the doctor as rarely as I do, that would be nice

No system works to everyone's advantage, but I am very dissatisfied with health care here. We pay a lot and get terrible service. My husband is an employee, so we can't change the insurance. Supposedly it is one of the good ones, Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
I will be gone for the weekend, so will check back later.
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Last edited by katzenfreund; 09-12-2008 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,006,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibit612 View Post
Thanks Katz...I'll definitely read the link you provided later on tonight. Looking at the numbers quickly, it appears that my family will be paying 200% more in premiums if self-employed people's incomes are considered in the employees' income, unless self-employed spouses should go get their own at the full 13%. Currently, my premiums calculate to be at 6.5% of my income, excluding co-pays, coinsurance and deductibles. My entire family is covered including my self-employed husband. In my case, the German system is tremendously more expensive than just the "little bit" that some proponents claim.
I'd really like to know how it works for self-employed as well. As it seems it would cost more than what we pay now based on those numbers (however, not by so much when you take copays and prescriptions into consideration). But hey, at least they'd have to cover preexisting conditions. That might even things out for us a little bit.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,144,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
The private insurances are not dependent on people's income, that is why people with high earnings buy private insurance. They are set fees. And on top of that, if you have private insurance, there are no co-pays at all.
Now this makes sense...if you have an opt-out. I guess the only way it will work is if the private insurance will be no more expensive than what is currently in place, and those that cannot afford to purchase private coverage can have the government kind.

But the cynic in me says, some people on the government run program will say, but why can't I get 6.5 obstetric ultasounds like the private insurance people can? Why am I capped at 2.3? That's discrimination!

Know what I mean????
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,115 posts, read 10,033,334 times
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Well, yes, some people complain that the "private insurance" people get better care. For example if you go to the hospital you always get a private room. Etc. But the standard of care on the regular insurance is very good, better than what I get here. I mean, why for example is wisdom tooth extraction not covered by your insurance? So we have extra dental insurance... our insurance has a $1000 max a year. Extracting 4 wisdom teeth costs $2000. That would take care of the entire years benefit plus an extra $1000 and then you would have to pay for cleanings on top of that. That kind of coverage is a joke, IMO. If you get infected teeth this can kill you. Why are teeth and eyes treated as if they were separate from the rest of your body ? Strange.
The bottom line is that there is no PERFECT system, but the system here is in such a bad shape, that something needs to happen...IMO.

OK, gotta run now... have a good weekend!
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Last edited by katzenfreund; 09-12-2008 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:38 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Type 2 diabetes: Risk factors - MayoClinic.com

Please note, age, sex, and family history cannot be changed and are ot lifestyle issues.
But some of the others are. I hope you are not trying to suggest that there is no correlation between the fattening of the country and the increase in Type 2 diabetes. Some of the factors are also more important than others.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,144,848 times
Reputation: 4989
Next question to Katz - how do unemployed people get health care? They don't have income so they have no means (at least I assume that) to pay for healthcare. Do they go to the German ER's too like they do in the US for an ear infection? Who bears that cost?

Now in a 2-payer system, one of which is the government, wouldn't that just be tantamount to Medicare removing income guidelines and making Medicare available to all?

I probably need to read up more on private insurance in Germany. This can be interesting, because in the US, all private insurance rates are based on Medicare reimbursement. It is called RBRVS - Resource Based Relative Value Scale. When Medicare reduces its reimbursement to providers, the private payers follow suit...very unhappy docs we have when this happens. Many of them will leave their current practice for more lucrative fields, opening up new issues.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Sometimes Maryland, sometimes NoVA. Depends on the day of the week
1,501 posts, read 10,540,276 times
Reputation: 1091
Something to thing about, I just took the 6.5% tax mentioned for Germany. It worked out to about $15 more per month than I pay now for my health insurance. Although that does not include the fact that my health insurance is deducted pre-tax. Personally, I would be more than happy to pay $180/year extra, and thats far less than I currently pay into the medicare system (FICA) and I don't even use that!

I don't really buy the argument of not wanting to pay for other people's health issues. First, you are when you pay into FICA, which is covering some of the most expensive to treat people. Second, you are when you buy health insurance (its pooled risk) your money goes to fund everyone in your pool. Third, you are when you and/or your insurance pays the bills b/c you are covering other people that the doctor/hospital/etc wrote off.

Example - I had a $4500 test run (YIKES!!) My insurance refused to pay b/c my doctor didn't send it to the correct lab. I freaked. My doctor's office said no worries b/c that lab writes off those that don't pay. Think about the ramifications here. Those that pay that $4500 bill are essentially covering the costs of their own tests and some portion of those tests the lab wrote off.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,112,847 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
Well, yes, some people complain that the "private insurance" people get better care. For example if you go to the hospital you always get a private room. Etc. But the standard of care on the regular insurance is very good, better than what I get here. I mean, why for example is wisdom tooth extraction not covered by your insurance? So we have extra dental insurance... our insurance has a $1000 max a year. Extracting 4 wisdom teeth costs $2000. That would take care of the entire years benefit plus an extra $1000 and then you would have to pay for cleanings on top of that. That kind of coverage is a joke, IMO. If you get infected teeth this can kill you. Why are teeth and eyes treated as if they were separate from the rest of your body ? Strange.
The bottom line is that there is no PERFECT system, but the system here is in such a bad shape, that something needs to happen...IMO.

OK, gotta run now... have a good weekend!

I love the sound of the German system.. sounds excellent..

Thanks for sharing that information and clearing up some misconceptions. As someone who is for a UHI system here in the states.. I am grateful when someone who has knowledge and experience shares it with the rest of us to show that the "fears" they have are just that.. fears and misconceptions and not facts.
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,966 posts, read 98,814,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
But some of the others are. I hope you are not trying to suggest that there is no correlation between the fattening of the country and the increase in Type 2 diabetes. Some of the factors are also more important than others.
No, I'm just saying, it's not as simple as calling it a "lifestyle" disease.
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