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Old 09-12-2008, 02:17 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
789 posts, read 1,170,258 times
Reputation: 141

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Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
Two points before we get started on this discussion:

1. College enrollment is at an all time high. As a result, a historic number of students from New England, New York, and California (blue states) have not been accepted to schools near their homes and instead have gone to schools in the south and the midwest (often red states).
What is this claim based on? I cannot seem to find statistics verifying it.
2. The electoral vote will decide this election, not the popular vote.

As a result: One strategy during this election has been to appeal to "out-of- state" students, telling them they have the power to turn their new state purple.

My question: Since these students are temporary (4-year) residents, do you think this is
a) a smart strategy, or
b) an abuse of the electoral system
c) a waste of time because college students don't vote, anyway
I don't know how the current system is set up. If students' have their vote cast in the state of their college I'd say A and B. If their votes are cast in the state of their permanent residence then I'd just say A.
More questions behind the question:

Do you think college students should be allowed to vote? Why, or why not?
Yes. They are the people that will be inherited the country and since they are now becoming responsible adults they should have a say in the direction of the country.
Should college students' votes be assigned to their address prior to starting school? And how would this be done?
I think their vote should be cast for whatever state their permanent residence is in.
Should the rule be that students who live off campus can vote, but those living in a dorm cannot?
No way, that's discrimination. I see no reason why we should refuse to let kids living in dorms vote.
Should students be allowed to vote in national elections, but not local elections?
Both. But only for the state of their permanent residence. At first I thought their vote should be cast for whatever state their college is in but this question made me change my mind. 20,000 kids coming into a town with a regular population of 5,000 and changing the politics for the permanent residents if extremely unfair.
For purposes of disclosure, I'm active in voter registration and think registering out-of-state college students is a brilliant strategy. But I'm more interested in hearing what other people think--so it may be a while before I step in to present my POV.
Check bold.

 
Old 09-12-2008, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,891 posts, read 5,151,473 times
Reputation: 2627
I don't see the argument as it pertains to people enrolled in college. I could see a debate about the age or residency requirements, but not one based simply on being enrolled in college. I am looking at enrolling in college (again) in 2009. I have been of voting age for almost 20 years, have plenty of experience living in the "real world", and have lived in this particular state all my life....are you saying that upon enrolling next year, I would (should) not be allowed to vote? How does that make sense?

Would this also apply to those students who are in graduate programs? Or....military training schools? Or actually serving in the military? Or seniors who have been living in an assisted living facility? The arguement that none are living in the "real world" could be made for each scenario. I don't think it would be a sensible arguement, but it holds about as much validity as the original question here....
 
Old 09-12-2008, 01:59 PM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,189,381 times
Reputation: 838
I agree with the folks who have said that of course college students should be permitted to vote.

I disagree with those who believe that their only options should be to vote where their parents live, unless they never go back 'home.'

College students are affected by local and state laws in the place in which they reside - they pay state and local taxes, whether on income, where relevant, or purchases - from food to clothes to gasoline.

They are not tourists. Full time residential college students are usually at the college well over half the year. Highway, police, and fire departments are pertinent. Recycling, health, and parks can be, as well.

College students are often a part of their communities. To suggest that they should not have the right to vote in them ignores some of the basic principles upon which this nation was established.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Texas
433 posts, read 390,284 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
They are not tourists. Full time residential college students are usually at the college well over half the year. Highway, police, and fire departments are pertinent. Recycling, health, and parks can be, as well.

College students are often a part of their communities. To suggest that they should not have the right to vote in them ignores some of the basic principles upon which this nation was established.
While I agree with your basic concept I would add to your basic thoughts is that the student MUST:
establish permanent residency by changing their legal address, drivers license, auto insurance, tax withholding location for state/city tax, etc.........

Otherwise they are in fact temporary residents and should not be allowed to vote on local issues.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,271,198 times
Reputation: 18984
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoTex View Post
While I agree with your basic concept I would add to your basic thoughts is that the student MUST:
establish permanent residency by changing their legal address, drivers license, auto insurance, tax withholding location for state/city tax, etc...
Don't most students do that anyway? Most students work and put their college address on the tax forms. I know I got a new drivers license shortly after arriving in town. (That was just a common sense piece of advice going around the campus at the time I went through. Cops like to give tickets to kids with out-of-state licenses, and a local license helps you avoid getting a DWB.) And I bought my first car after taking the bus for a year--so the registration was definitely local. As for car insurance--the companies care where the car is garaged not where your parents live. Which was good news for me--my parents lived in a poor area of Florida. Car insurance there would have been expensive.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Texas
433 posts, read 390,284 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
Don't most students do that anyway?
Then the conditions are met. At least for 'most' students.

I would again suggest that a resident complies with these requirements- a visitor or temporary resident doesn't. By federal law all States are required to exempt military members from residency requirements; most also provide exemptions for students. Students not making the effort to become permanent residents should not vote in local elections.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 07:10 PM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,189,381 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoTex View Post
While I agree with your basic concept I would add to your basic thoughts is that the student MUST:
establish permanent residency by changing their legal address, drivers license, auto insurance, tax withholding location for state/city tax, etc.........

Otherwise they are in fact temporary residents and should not be allowed to vote on local issues.
The legal address must change, or one is not allowed to vote!

Auto insurance, though, does not need to change - only "principal garaging" must change, and I can tell you already that when it doesn't change and a dispute arises, some insurance companies use that to deny coverage.

OTOH, I am not saying that they cannot be temporary residents - I am saying that a temporary resident of a certain percentage of the year is entitled to vote in that community even if, a half-year later, the person is moving elsewhere.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,025 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31466
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoTex View Post
While I agree with your basic concept I would add to your basic thoughts is that the student MUST:
establish permanent residency by changing their legal address, drivers license, auto insurance, tax withholding location for state/city tax, etc.........

Otherwise they are in fact temporary residents and should not be allowed to vote on local issues.
There are many people who have two residences, or more. They can only vote in one. I don't know why it should be any different for college students. In point of fact, tax witholding is done if a student has a job in the college town, and if you earn money in a state with state income tax you have to pay tax to that state, regardless of the address on your tax return.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,271,198 times
Reputation: 18984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There are many people who have two residences, or more. They can only vote in one.
It's true, the confusion over what you consider your "real" home isn't just for college students.

We still own our home in NOVA. After we bought a retirement home in Georgia, we moved our furniture to Georgia and rented the NOVA house out to the kids. But I still use the NOVA house as my address for a number of purposes... and I still get mail there (especially important because we were travelling all summer). I'm still registered to vote in Virginia.

So am I a Virginian or a Georgian? You know, I don't know. Actually, a lot of times I call myself a Californian because that's where I lived the longest. I guess the truth is I'm both... and legally I'm still a Virginian. Mostly.

You can't make life difficult for people just because they have more than one home.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Texas
433 posts, read 390,284 times
Reputation: 136
Residency in the USA for your perusal and enjoyment.....................................

Opinion follows
IMHO anyone who votes issues should live with the results; not vote and go home at the end of the semester. This is why I posted that permanent residency should be a requirement. Its evident there are many who have a different viewpoint and that is what makes a debate worthwhile- even if no agreement if ever reached!!
Opinion Finished (Mostly)

That said, this one kind of of took hold and started the curiosity gene working. So with our trusty internet search engine I went looking to see how various states handle said issue.
Wow. 50 states 50 ways? Not quite but some states are precise while others are cavalier with how they describe residency. Most seem to require 30 day residency prior to registering to vote as well as registering 30 days prior to an election - so for the purposes of the November election it might be a moot point for the student arriving on campus in September. This is assuming the student is truthful when answering all of the relevant questions.

A favorite was Maine: Bureau of Corporations, Elections & Commissions, Elections Division - Voter Eligibility How is voting residence determined?
Residence is that place where the person has established a fixed and principal home to which the person, whenever temporarily absent, intends to return.
  • Under this definition, residence is something that a person establishes, not something a person chooses.
  • While the definition includes the person's "intent to return" to a residence, it makes it clear that the residence must in fact exist, and the person must have established it as a fixed and principal home.
  • The law does not define "fixed" or "principal" or "home".
  • In most cases, a person has only one place where he or she resides, making residency an easy factor for the registrar to determine. However, determining residency becomes more difficult when a person owns or rents a dwelling in more than one municipality.
  • The registrar may consider the following factors (as set forth in section 112) in determining whether a person has established and maintains a voting residence in the municipality:
    • A direct statement of intention by the person pursuant to section 121.1 (an "oath");
    • The location of any dwelling currently occupied by the person;
    • The place where any motor vehicle owned by the person is registered;
    • The residence address, not a post office box, shown on a current income tax return;
    • The residence address, not a post office box, where the person receives mail;
    • The residence address, not a post office box, shown on any motor vehicle operator's license the person holds;
    • The receipt of any public benefit conditioned upon residency, defined substantially as provided in this subsection; or
    • Any other objective facts tending to indicate a person's place of residence.
  • No one may register to vote in more than one place at the same time. When completing a voter registration application, the voter must provide an address for previous registration, or if never registered to vote in another jurisdiction, must write "none" in the space provided.
Utah was also interesting ( Note the very last word!)
State of Utah Elections Office
Residency A resident of Utah for at least 30 days before the election. An applicant is considered a resident of Utah if he or she has his principal place of residence within Utah and intends to continue to reside within Utah indefinitely.
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