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Old 09-12-2008, 10:31 AM
 
239 posts, read 468,173 times
Reputation: 66
Thumbs up The shut down of america

This is a hyopthetical idea and input would be appreciated.Suppose america were to completely shut down all outside dealings for 10 years very limited import and export, no immigration, just us americans and we turned all of our resources inward...all of our food grown,oil refined,and products made just stayed here,and bring all but the troops necessary
to protect our intrests and agreements abroad.. and use the rest of the military for homeland DEFENSE only... we could close the welfare rolls you either work in some capacity for the good of our nation or you leave, the free ride would be over.how do you guys think this would affect the nation as a whole?
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 5,475,624 times
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Poorly. Isolationism never turns out well. Take a look at North Korea for a prime example.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:41 AM
 
239 posts, read 468,173 times
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but north korea had always depended on outside support we are a nation of great resources.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:09 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
15,788 posts, read 13,506,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernmeltdown View Post
but north korea had always depended on outside support we are a nation of great resources.
So do we. We do NOT have all the resources necessary to even defend ourselves (and I'm NOT just referring to oil here, modern technology requires a very wide range of resource - MANY of which are simply not in existence on American soil). Note paragraph #3 in the link below:

Strategic Material-U.S. Vulnerability

Total isolationism for the US would lead to a North Korea type situation (both in regards to the economy and to personal liberties) - even with the resources we have.

A TERRIBLE idea.

Ken
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:43 PM
 
2,175 posts, read 2,138,136 times
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Let me set aside the national security question for a moment and just discuss the pragmatics of the question.

Would the countries that have investments in businesses in this country still realize profits from them or would you be nationalizing those businesses?

Would the foreign countries' companies that manufacture items here be permitted to do so?

Would you provide a lead time for transition from reliance on goods and parts manufactured overseas, allowing for the creation of facilities in this country?

For example, the grocery stores Stop & Shop, Giant (in Pennsylvania), Giant (in Maryland), and BiLo are all owned by a Dutch firm. Shaws and Star are owned by an English firm. Kash 'n Karry and Hannaford Bros. stores are owned by a Belgian firm. A&P? German. So is Aldi.

Computer parts. Car parts. Machines and machine parts for the very manufacturing that we wish to do here are often from overseas. Which "all American" computers were you planning on keeping?

If we are not importing things, would the next J.K. Rowling not permitted to be paid for the right to publish her books - or film (and show) her movies?

No more diamonds. I wonder how many metals we import.

Hawaii cannot grow enough chocolate to keep us fed, nor enough coffee, I am sure. Perhaps you would have exceptions made for those items.

How would you wish to handle foreign patents? Drugs and drug companies come to mind - the multi-nationals like Bayer would obviously be forbidden.
********

Where do you plan to draw the line?
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:04 PM
 
239 posts, read 468,173 times
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see these are the things i like to see a very good point made....but wasn't there a time in american history where the food you ate,the medicines you take,even the cars you drove were made here, we as a nation have become so dependent on corprate masters that we as a nation have lost all self reliance. and i did stipulate limited imports not a total stoppage. but most of the things you mentioned could very easily be made right here... we still have natural resources left. why can"t we build our nation strong instead of every other country?
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:52 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
15,788 posts, read 13,506,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernmeltdown View Post
see these are the things i like to see a very good point made....but wasn't there a time in american history where the food you ate,the medicines you take,even the cars you drove were made here, we as a nation have become so dependent on corprate masters that we as a nation have lost all self reliance. and i did stipulate limited imports not a total stoppage. but most of the things you mentioned could very easily be made right here... we still have natural resources left. why can"t we build our nation strong instead of every other country?
That world is gone. The modern world is all interrelated. There was a time individuals or very small groups would be entirely self-sufficient. They would hunt their own food, make their own clothes deliver their own babies etc, etc, etc. The only way to do that though is to live a very basic lifestyle (without electricity, modern medicines etc). As the relationships between individuals become more complicated the general standard of living rises. Goods and services which were not available before become commonplace. Same thing is true on a macro-scale involving whole nations - that's one of the advantages of a interrelated world - you have a lot more options than you would otherwise.

If you tried to isolate the nation it would be a disaster. What about all the jobs that would be lost for the folks that make exported goods? If we stopped buying overseas do you really think those nations would continue to buy US-made goods? The fact is they wouldn't. So what happens to those companies (such as Boeing - the largest US exporter (by dollar value))? If Boeing had been dependent upon US sale for commercial airliners in the years since 9/11 it would have gone bankrupt. Same is true for MANY other US companies. What about all those US coastal cities that depend on overseas trade for their very existence? Shut down exports and you'd have massive unemployment - just in time for (based on your other proposals) the disappearance of unemployment compensation and other government aid to people in need.

And speaking of shutting down welfare rolls etc, - what kinds of jobs are the elderly, the infirm, the mentally ill, etc going to do exactly? Granted, there are plenty of folks who abuse welfare, but there are also plenty of folks who have legitimate reasons for being unable to fend for themselves. Are those people simply to starve (as they have done in ages past - and are still doing in places like Africa and India)?

All, in all you plan reminds me way too much of North Korea, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, or any of any number of extremist governments intent on forcing their version of self-reliant "utopia". Can you name a single case where ANY country has isolated itself (let alone a society as technology-reliant as the US) and not ended up an economic basket-case and a human-rights nightmare?

Ken

Last edited by LordBalfor; 09-12-2008 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:03 PM
 
2,723 posts, read 4,578,074 times
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It wouldn't work.
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:03 PM
 
239 posts, read 468,173 times
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another great point ...the idea sounds good in theory but it seems it would do more damage than already exists....you know another idea occured to me imagine the civil unrest this would create ,the riots ,and the killings to go with it.... then the police state that would follow to quell the unrest.....wow nazi germany all over again....thanks for the input so far lots of food for thought....
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:10 PM
 
29,484 posts, read 17,706,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernmeltdown View Post
see these are the things i like to see a very good point made....but wasn't there a time in american history where the food you ate,the medicines you take,even the cars you drove were made here, we as a nation have become so dependent on corprate masters that we as a nation have lost all self reliance. and i did stipulate limited imports not a total stoppage. but most of the things you mentioned could very easily be made right here... we still have natural resources left. why can"t we build our nation strong instead of every other country?
Ok, um...in the interests of equal time to your "Corporate Masters" comment.
Maybe we can't find the pool of American workers that we once had? You know, ones that studied math and science and can be our doctors, scientists etc. The ones that showed up to work, worked hard and could pass a drug test. There are a number of good jobs still out there...but the easy pickings of 30-40 years ago are gone.

I have a couple of relatives that are experts in Nintendo and rolling joints. While I love them dearly, I would not drive in, on or over anything they had a hand in making.

The bottom line is that most Americans aren't willing to pay extra for a broom so that someone $30 a hour (including benefits values) to work in a broom factory in the US. We buy the cheap broom made by someone in Mexico making $5 an hour. Blame corporations all you want if that helps you ignore this fact and get through the day feeling better.
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