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Old 09-18-2008, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,571,737 times
Reputation: 1023

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The graph you offered does not depict US government spending, which is what you were commenting on.

Otherwise, I would recommend that you:

* Look at a plot of the growth of U.S. GDP shown on a log10 scale.
* Look at a plot of the growth of the national debt as a percentage of the US GDP.

The United States is a very affluent nation economically speaking.
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:16 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,489,197 times
Reputation: 4016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
The graph you offered does not depict US government spending.

Otherwise, I would recommend that you:

* Look at a plot of the growth of U.S. GDP shown on a log10 scale.
* Look at a plot of the growth of the national debt as a percentage of the US GDP.

The United States is a very affluent nation economically speaking.
Okay....so you looked at the graph but didn't read my response.


I've seen the charts





It doesn't change the fact we are headed for bankruptcy. We have absolutely no way to pay for the impeding 78 million baby boomers coming into the ss services.....you can't see it now but it will be the biggest bubble that has ever burst in the US if we don't do something really soon.
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Old 09-18-2008, 08:27 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,604,741 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
It doesn't change the fact we are headed for bankruptcy. We have absolutely no way to pay for the impeding 78 million baby boomers coming into the ss services.....you can't see it now but it will be the biggest bubble that has ever burst in the US if we don't do something really soon.
The Mexicans. Duh! Did you really think it was about them doing jobs Americans won't do?
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Old 09-18-2008, 08:38 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,604,741 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Let's get away from the money for a second and use a different example.

Let's say the community needs water... because for some reason their well has run dry or it's just a community void of any water. To the communities left there is a dessert, which you may be able to get some water from some cactus plant here or there or you may have an oasis or two but certainly there isn't enough water to be had there. To the right of the the community is are some rivers with some flowing water in which you can get quite a bit of water from, but you certainly don't want to take all of the water from those rivers so that they run completely dry. So you get what you can without draining the river and thereby killing the wildlife that relies on that river water to sustain life. Then to the NOrth there are some lakes .. much larger bodies of water where you can get some water and quite a bit and the lake will not diminish so much and wildlife dependent on that water to sustain may not notice at all.. and then to the south is a vast ocean of water and there you will certainly get all the rest of the water the community needs without ever having truly affected the balance in said ocean.
Your analogy only works if your fictional community owns the rivers and the lakes. What happens when somebody else owns the water and has different plans for the water, say substaining their own community? Who decides who gets the water?

Let me ask you:

Assume Mommy moves Tristan to the country because she wants him to grow up to love nature. She saves, buys the perfect property, and builds a home. They plant lots of trees and grass, and have a nice swimming pool put in. After a few years of very hard work, they are very happy!

One day, a family moves across the way. She wonders why they would move there, as she knows from her property search that there are water issues there. A month later, the county shows up with a mandatory notice and tells her that she is going to have to share her well with the new family. Even worse, they don't have to help pay for any of the drilling costs, or even help pay the electric bill for the pump. A few months later, the well is running dry. Her plants are dying, and she can't fill the pool for Tristan. Her neighbors tell her to quit complaining because she still has trees and a nice lawn; after all, its not like she's hurting - she still has a nice place.

Mommy of course is bummed, because she paid far more for her property than the new family. They got a great deal on their property because of the water issues. The family across the street is just happy that the nice family across the road is letting them "use" their well.

Do you get it now?

Last edited by GOPATTA2D; 09-18-2008 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 09-18-2008, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,122,372 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
Your analogy only works if your fictional community owns the rivers and the lakes. What happens when somebody else owns the water and has different plans for the water, say substaining their own community? Who decides who gets the water?

Let me ask you:

Assume Mommy moves Tristan to the country because she wants him to grow up to love nature. She saves, buys the perfect property, and builds a home. They plant lots of trees and grass, and have a nice swimming pool put in. After a few years of very hard work, they are very happy!

One day, a family moves across the way. She wonders why they would move there, as she knows from her property search that there are water issues there. A month later, the county shows up with a mandatory notice and tells her that she is going to have to share her well with the new family. Even worse, they don't have to help pay for any of the drilling costs, or even help pay the electric bill for the pump. A few months later, the well is running dry. Her plants are dying, and she can't fill the pool for Tristan. Her neighbors tell her to quit complaining because she still has trees and a nice lawn; after all, its not like she's hurting - she still has a nice place.

Mommy of course is bummed, because she paid far more for her property than the new family. They got a great deal on their property because of the water issues. The family across the street is just happy that the nice family across the road is letting them "use" their well.

Do you get it now?
Nope.. I don't get it at all.

First of all.. money is NOT being taken from you and given to someone else... it's being given to the government..

Go back to my bread anology.

You have money to buy food for you and your family. You ahve enough to buy 2 loaves of bread, but the law says that the governement needs a little from each person to sustain teh governemnt.. So the law says that if you have 2 loaves of bread you have to give 1/2 of 1 loaf if you have 2 and you are left iwth 1 1/2 loaves..

Now the next family can only afford 1 loaf of bread and the law states that they too need to pay taxes, but because their loaf is much smaller because if the family had to give 1/2 a loaf what they had left would not be enough to feed the family.. so they take 1/4 of a loaf from that family leaving them with 3/4..

So you donated 1/2 a loaf and have 1 1/2 out of 2 left and the family that had the one loaf had to give 1/4 and they are left with 3/4 of a loaf..which is maybe just enough.

What the government does with those loafs collected go to various things.. yes.. some are given to people who can't even afford to buy 1/2 a loaf etc so a portion of those loaves are going to them.. but the rest are going to various other places..

Now do You get it. This isn't about one neighbor being forced to give to another neighbor.. and THAT is what a lot of you can't get past!!

Your well water isn't going to your neighbor next door! (with the acception of money that the gov't does spend on welfare) but therre are for more other things that the gov't uses money for .

Heck.. right now all the money we all pay in taxes is apparently going to bail out corporations!!!

Your money and my money are going to functions of gov't.. not wealth redistribution...
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Old 09-18-2008, 09:22 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,604,741 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Nope.. I don't get it at all.
You never will get it. This debate is pointless.

Peace to you.
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,122,372 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
You never will get it. This debate is pointless.

Peace to you.
And you don't get it either.

You are stuck thinking that your tax dollars are going from your hand into your neighbors hand.. THAT is not the case here.. someone else said it before and I said it in my posts several times.

The income tax is NOT wealth redistribution. I do not get anything from the higher taxes you are paying..nor is anyone else.

If you can't get past that..then you're right.. the debate is pointless because you simply can not let go of a fact that just isn't the truth..

YOUR tax dollars are NOT going into my pocket, Jane or Joe's pocket or anyone else's pocket. Your tax dollars are going into the government's "bank account" that then get spent as the gov't sees fit ...

Yes.. that includes welfare programs, without a doubt.. but it also includes many other things well beyond that..

Peace to you.
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:55 PM
 
16,753 posts, read 18,975,155 times
Reputation: 6841
Lol... you don't get anything? I guess the whole theory of socialism goes out of the door... funny... you advocate for socialism and then say you don't get anything from it by stealing from others... typical liberal...
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,418,783 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
First of all.. money is NOT being taken from you and given to someone else... it's being given to the government..
TM - YOUR money (taxes) is given to the government (you are correct) who then gives it to an individual (welfare/food stamps etc)

YOUR money is being re-distributed

It is a FACT TM
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,418,783 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
The income tax is NOT wealth redistribution.
Yes, it is.
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