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Old 09-19-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,371,245 times
Reputation: 4893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Unfortunately, withdrawing from Social Security is an option available to only a very few—the American clergy; and even they cannot withdraw for any reason except exemption based on religious conviction.

I suppose we could all get one of those on line minister degrees and then claim to have a religious conviction to not pay into SS.

must certify that he or she opposes, either conscientiously or because of religious principles, the acceptance of any public insurance and/or assistance (with respect to services performed as a minister), including all forms of Social Security and/or Medicare coverage, FEMA disaster assistance, government sponsored Pell Grants for education, welfare assistance, food stamps, and so on.

The quote about the inability to get or seek the stated (and unstated) benefits is absolutely on the mark

I will not ever be able to get social security, SSI, Medicare, FEMA (although would never impact me anyway), food stamps (federally funded) welfare (federally funded) etc

Speaking for myself - I have never been concerned about opting out - not in any fashion.

I am faring so much better by opting out than if I contributed to the unholy scheme known as SS
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Old 09-19-2008, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,371,245 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
It's not off topic.. and it's not a personal attack
I never suggested it was a personal attack TM - why would you even suggest such a thing.

And, I will submit the issue to the moderators to see if it is off topic - remember - in the Great Debate forums - they are holding to a much higher standard.
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Old 09-19-2008, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,113,603 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
The quote about the inability to get or seek the stated (and unstated) benefits is absolutely on the mark

I will not ever be able to get social security, SSI, Medicare, FEMA (although would never impact me anyway), food stamps (federally funded) welfare (federally funded) etc

Speaking for myself - I have never been concerned about opting out - not in any fashion.

I am faring so much better by opting out than if I contributed to the unholy scheme known as SS

Not understanding your answer.. You haven't really addressed the challenge of fact.

The first being that it states you must be clergy! So, if you are clergy great.. if not how did you skirt around that?

Second.. I was askign what religious beliefs lead you to the conclusion that participating in a SS program is so against?

What makes SS unholy? What religious basis is there to say that SS is unhol?
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,371,245 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Not understanding your answer.. You haven't really addressed the challenge of fact.

The first being that it states you must be clergy! So, if you are clergy great.. if not how did you skirt around that?

Second.. I was askign what religious beliefs lead you to the conclusion that participating in a SS program is so against?

What makes SS unholy? What religious basis is there to say that SS is unhol?
I have asked the moderators if talking about the religious issues is appropriate here -

I will await their decision
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,113,603 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I never suggested it was a personal attack TM - why would you even suggest such a thing.

And, I will submit the issue to the moderators to see if it is off topic - remember - in the Great Debate forums - they are holding to a much higher standard.
Again.. it was brought up in the scheme of taxing fair/or unfair. and the redistribution of wealth and specifically brought up SS which we have also been discussing in length on this thread.

Then the opt out issue came up and so I am challenging that.. all within the context of what has been discussed in this thread.
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:05 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 65,276,463 times
Reputation: 22274
I did not read every thread . . . just didn't take the time, so please forgive me if someone else posted this.

Every year, on January 1st, I think about the 12 months ahead, and it is very discouraging, that my DH and I must work til May, to just pay for our taxes.

Yep. Every penny we make up until that magic date in May goes to taxes, for government entities to disburse to God only knows where. And for what. Nearly Five months.

There is a calendar that gives an "overall" date for Americans in general. We figure our taxes up based on the previous year. Our "tax liberation day" is always in May.

Maybe you all haven't thought how many days you have to work just to pay your taxes - money you never see! Well this year, b/c of the rebate, your liberation day came a bit earlier - in April. Start thinking about it that way . . . how many hours of a commute, how many lunches you are paying for, how many dry cleaning bills, how many gallons of gas you are using all those months while you are not even making any money - you are just working to pay the government - so they can entitle others. Oh sure, some of it is for SS, wh/ anyone who is presently under 50 will probably never see. Heck, they have pushed my retirement date out so far - I will never be able to retire. I will die at the computer, LOL.

Here is a link:

The Tax Foundation - America Celebrates Tax Freedom Day®
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,113,603 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I have asked the moderators if talking about the religious issues is appropriate here -

I will await their decision

If the moderator strikes my challenge to the relgious aspect now brought up in the discussion then tehy will have to strike the entire conversation about religion giving someone the ability to opt out..

I am challenging that assertion.
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,562,862 times
Reputation: 1023
TMommy, you can search on poster Greatday's alias and find on other threads his explanation of how/why he opted out of SS.
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:06 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,598,264 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
of course here you are but its like the famous line in sixth sense
people hear and see just what they want to. for the marie antonette folks its not about listening to the little guy is it?
see you at the polls
You assert the "rich pay no taxes". When questioned, you post a link to a report that is technically correct, but misleading. Under the current tax code, S-Corporations pay no income tax. The income is instead transferred to the personal return of the corporation owner, where it is TAXED at the owners individual rate. According to the US Chamber of Commerce, who commissioned a study to challenge this report, 55% of all corporations in the US are in fact S corporations. That means 55% of corporations will NEVER pay tax; that does not mean that the income is never taxed. Furthermore, they report that S corporations are primarily small businesses. The tax liability of these S corporations is a small percentage of total corporate taxes.

A quick trip to the IRS website, or even the GAO website, will confirm for you who actually pays taxes in this country. While some companies do not pay taxes, it is primarily because they have lost money. Just like an individual who has no taxable income, corporations can have no income either. No income, no tax. A company that had a billion dollars in sales and lost money would have no tax liability.

There are a couple of possibilities here. One, you did not even read the entire article, or the embedded links, simply choosing to believe it on face value. Two, you were aware of the fact, and were counting on me to be ignorant on the matter. Either way, one needs to be prepared in this forum. This is the Great Debates forum - some of us are great debaters.

Anyway, I am always happy to educate those less blessed in fiscal matters than myself. To help you in your education process, I suggest you download the form 10-K's of the top 1000 public companies. Scroll to the Notes and look for the income tax reconciliation. Taxes fall under FASB109. In an Excel spreadsheet, enter the annual tax liability of each company. Finally, open the taxpayer stats file from the IRS or GAO that summarizes taxes by source and compare the two totals. You might be surprised. Imagine - all those rich companies paying taxes!

PS, still waiting for the links on how the "rich" don't pay taxes.

Peace.
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:09 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,598,264 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
It's millions

And, for the record - I do object to social security on religious grounds -
Post some stats to that affect. I'll find the link from lunch that indicated it was in the thousands. Oh, and only income derived from those sources (ministry) is exempt. Other income is still subject to SS tax.

Peace.
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