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Old 09-19-2008, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 6,869,677 times
Reputation: 915

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
And you don't get it either.

You are stuck thinking that your tax dollars are going from your hand into your neighbors hand.. THAT is not the case here.. someone else said it before and I said it in my posts several times.

The income tax is NOT wealth redistribution. I do not get anything from the higher taxes you are paying..nor is anyone else.

If you can't get past that..then you're right.. the debate is pointless because you simply can not let go of a fact that just isn't the truth..

YOUR tax dollars are NOT going into my pocket, Jane or Joe's pocket or anyone else's pocket. Your tax dollars are going into the government's "bank account" that then get spent as the gov't sees fit ...

Yes.. that includes welfare programs, without a doubt.. but it also includes many other things well beyond that..

Peace to you.
Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, and many many many other programs effectively give our tax money to someone else.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:38 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,496 posts, read 25,294,072 times
Reputation: 14841
Special high standards apply in this forum - ALL posters MUST read this

Moderator cut: Once again, my suggestion is that you read the Administrator's rules for this forum. The last couple of posts are fine, but this bickering is going to stop. Keep to the topic and discuss it. Instead of wandering to a different subject, please just start a new thread.
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,218 posts, read 2,226,844 times
Reputation: 908
From IRS website:
Exemption From Self-Employment (SE) Tax





You can request an exemption from SE tax if you are one of the following.
  • A minister.
  • A member of a religious order who has not taken a vow of poverty.
  • A Christian Science practitioner.
  • A member of a recognized religious sect.
AGain.. all I could find on that is this information.

I searched for some stats on the numbers of those that opt out of SS but I couldn't find it..

newMexico.. I'll be waiting for that link.. I'd be curious to read it.

Thanks
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Old 09-20-2008, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,429 posts, read 5,037,946 times
Reputation: 2441
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
Interesting point.

If this is fair, how is it not fair?
It's not fair that we're, the entire population, subjugated like this, but one has to remember how and why we got into this mess called the "income tax". The top earners, back in the day, was controlling everything. The low earners were feeling envious and wanted something done. Well, long story short, legislation backfired or to others' opinion, got perversed in translation, on the lower earners.


The historical landscape is littered with a few wanting to control resources, laws and power in general over the majority.

Like the old adage goes: The more things change, the more things stay the same.

I have to agree with MikeJaquish's assesment of : Yes, it's fair and No, it's not fair.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,913 posts, read 5,031,654 times
Reputation: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
This question appears to be one that sparks a very distinct reaction from everyone, in every field and at all ranges and levels of the political, business, and social spectrum. It shows up in our fundamental sense of fairness, our political aspirations and our livelihoods as taxpayers, business owners and employees.

Is it fair that the top 5-10% pay the majority of taxes?

Jps revision - "Is it fair that the top 5 - 10% of the earners pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than everybody else does?"

Quick reference for debate facts Tax Facts | Tax Facts home
Shouldn't you establish that it is somehow unfair?
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,085 posts, read 1,513,493 times
Reputation: 338
I honestly think the only fair tax scheme is the flat tax proposal by Steve Forbes. In a nutshell, the plan calls for a flat rate of 17% which would be more than enough to support the Fed'l Gov't which would be smaller since we don't need thousands of IRS workers on the payroll. Families would still get personal exemptions and the plan would exempt income that is saved and invested which would encourage growth. Under today's set-up, only the middle/upper middle class are overpaying. The rich get away with work arounds like capital gains and the poor (and in some cases irresponsible) get away with paying nothing or almost nothing. I'd like someone to explain to me why we should keep the confusing, tedious, tax system we have today.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:12 PM
 
4,090 posts, read 3,170,630 times
Reputation: 1227
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
I'd like someone to explain to me why we should keep the confusing, tedious, tax system we have today.
Because if my business fails, I can always go back to my old job as a CPA.

In all seriousness, many economists suggest that a sudden change in the tax system will wreak havoc; they advocate a slower transition to a flat tax if that is the path chosen.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:29 AM
 
19,178 posts, read 20,010,830 times
Reputation: 3907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, and many many many other programs effectively give our tax money to someone else.
They also give somebody else's money to you. Might as well address the entire picture. We all pay, and we all benefit. Taxes are merely your share of the tab for ALL of the things that government does on our behalf. If you don't like some of the things that the government does on our behalf or would like to see some new things added to the list, speak with your elected representatives. It is they who make those decisions. Either way, whining about your share of the bill for them is just that...whining.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:58 AM
 
19,178 posts, read 20,010,830 times
Reputation: 3907
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
I'd like someone to explain to me why we should keep the confusing, tedious, tax system we have today.
The tax code is complex because the economy is complex. And out of those tens of thousands of pages, how many apply to you? A couple hundred? Which are then boiled down into a handful of pages of specific instructions? 70% of individuals file their taxes on either a 1040-A or a 1040-EZ. It takes less than ten hours per year to file those forms. It takes longer to fill out a financial dsiclosure form. It takes longer to apply to a selective college or university.

Meanwhile, the current system efficiently collects on the order of a trillion dollars while offering a variety of incentives toward what are thought to be socially beneficial activities, and a variety of concessions to circumstances that might make tax payment more burdensome. The flat tax once propsoed by Steve Forbes did nothing so well as shift tax burden from the rich onto middle and upper-middle class taxpayers. A hall pass for the wealthy...there was little more to it than that.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,647 posts, read 9,062,834 times
Reputation: 1672
Lightbulb Hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Shouldn't you establish that it is somehow unfair?
No. If this were a supposition based on theory, perhaps. However, it isn't. The current Tax Policy establishes who pays what, and what portion or percentage if you will.

"This question appears to be one that sparks a very distinct reaction from everyone, in every field and at all ranges and levels of the political, business, and social spectrum. It shows up in our fundamental sense of fairness, our political aspirations and our livelihoods as taxpayers, business owners and employees."
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