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Old 10-13-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,261,063 times
Reputation: 10915

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Folks with real ambition see someone who can exceed their wages every day... In the mirror.

You have the opportunity in a capitalist society to roll up your sleeves, hang out your shingle, and earn the living you desire.
It means accepting risk, but risk is where the rewards are.
More than half of new businesses fail in the first three years.

However, in my LINE of work, there really is no INDEPENDENT work...for some reason companies don't contract out working their freight.
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:16 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,734,523 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
Social Security is a broken system, back when it was instituted, you had more workers paying into the system than were receiving from the system. Our baby boomer generation did not have enough kids to replace them, it turned our system to the opposite. You now have more people drawing from the system than are putting into it, that is unsustainable.
Just because it's my mission in life to clean up other people's misleading statistics, the assertions above are false. In 1950, there were 16.5 workers per Social Security beneficiary. By 1975, it had reached 3.2. Today, it is 3.3. The SS Trustees project that it will decline to 2.0 by the year 2075.

The baby boomers realized the effects that their own retirements would one day have on SS. That's why they've been paying in nearly double what would have been necessary to sustain a pay-as-you-go system for the past 25 years. The surplus is building up in the SS Trust Fund as the cushion that will allow SS to pay boomer beneifts in full without needing to collect an extra dime in taxes of any sort.
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:39 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,734,523 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
I would venture to say that a large portion of Americans making minimum wage are not the major breadwinner in the home. They are student jobs, and part time jobs that pay mininmum wage. Heck, even Mcdonalds pays more than minimum in America.
Actually, this is somewhat misleading also. Here are some data that put a more fact-based spin on the matter...

Per the Bureau of Labor Statitsics --

Hourly wage-earners at or below the minimum wage, 2007...

Age 16-24: 814,000
Age 25+: 915,000

Men: 546,000
Women: 1,183,000

Northeast: 292,000
Midwest: 410,000
West: 209,000
South: 817,000

HS Dropout: 419,000
HS Degree: 566,000
Some college: 602,000
College degree: 142,000

Never married: 1,088,000
Married, spouse present: 391,000
Married, other: 250,000

Hours worked per week at primary job...
No fixed hours: 219,000
1-9: 69,000
10-19: 217,000
20-29: 381,000
30-39: 364,000
40: 410,000
41-48: 21,000
49-59: 37,000
60+: 12,000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
Next, Social Security in America does cost a fortune.....why? Because THE GOVERNMENT IS A POOR STEWARD OF OUR MONIES!
Hmmm. Most payroll taxes are immediately sent out as benefit payments to recipients. The residual (the part being saved up in the SSTF re the baby boomers) is invested in US Treasury securities...those things everybody has been trying to get out of the stock market to buy instead.

Wealth lost by the NYSE last week: $10 trillion
Wealth lost by the SSTF last week: $0

Meanwhile, admin and management costs for SS are about 0.8% of benefit payments. How would that compare to private sector numbers?
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,592 posts, read 55,295,005 times
Reputation: 30150
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
More than half of new businesses fail in the first three years.

However, in my LINE of work, there really is no INDEPENDENT work...for some reason companies don't contract out working their freight.
Time for an alternate line of work, maybe?
People do it all the time.
To say you are enslaved is to deny opportunities that are all around.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:15 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,514,836 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
Quote:
To say you are enslaved is to deny opportunities that are all around.
What opportunities if your education costs a fortune?
There are no opportunities if you are forced to get a huge loan in order to get an education. You start out the same way like slaves who had no money to buy land and had no other option but to work on land that was not theirs, so the majority of their earnings went back to the landowners (read: the rich).
There literally is no difference between a slave and a wage slave because they live in exactly the same conditions.

Quote:
Folks with real ambition see someone who can exceed their wages every day... In the mirror.
I guess the day traders agree with you.


Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
If you do that to yourself, dont expect anyone to help you pay for it. Personal responsibilty here, you need personal responsibility.
Which no 1 is taking, all under the guise of 'personal' freedom.
Besidez, why take responsibility if GM is paying the bills?

Quote:
Yes, our health care system is broken, but that is not the topic at hand.
The reason why your healthcare is broken relates directly to the topic at hand.
Who do ya think makes up the 5-10% who pay the majority of the American taxes?
Corporations are owned by the rich and not the poor and it is a fact that the American government only listens to the corporations (and their lobbyists) because they are the ones who 'donate' money to the politicians.

Quote:
I suggest you read the rules for posting in the great debates forum. And use the responses and rules outlined in there instead of replying with "
Are you truly that naive" which is a NO NO in here.
Where I come from deliberately denying facts is called being naive.
Besidez, asking you if you are naive isn't the same as concluding that you are naive.
Only you can answer if you are naive or not and whether you answer the question positive or not all depends on how honest you are regarding yourself.
Most naive people do not consider themselves naive, simply because they have no idea that they are being naive.
If they did they wouldn't be naive.

Quote:
The selling of persons as 'capital' is not well looked upon.
Neither is selling drugs but it still happens, simply because there is a demand.
And in a free economy every demand must be met, right?
Otherwise your personal freedom is 'infringed'.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,250,335 times
Reputation: 944
[quote=Tricky D;5677448]Originally Posted by MikeJaquish What opportunities if your education costs a fortune?
There are no opportunities if you are forced to get a huge loan in order to get an education. You start out the same way like slaves who had no money to buy land and had no other option but to work on land that was not theirs, so the majority of their earnings went back to the landowners (read: the rich).
There literally is no difference between a slave and a wage slave because they live in exactly the same conditions.

Besidez, why take responsibility if GM is paying the bills?
[quote]

I started out with nothing. I payed my way through college working two full time jobs. I managed to lift myself up and into a good paying job. There are opportunities if you look for them. Scholarships are pelntyfull, and if you work hard enough you can get a good education without any handouts, including scholarships.

and as to your second comment, why take responsibility for ones actions if the government is going to pay for it. Why take education seriously if the government is going to pay for it? Why strive to get a good job when sitting at home doing nothing is another option because government will pay for it.

Come on, pull yourself up by your own boot straps and stop expecting anyone else to do it for you.

as to the taxes, why strive to pull yourself up by the boot straps to work at wealth, when the government will take your feet when you reach wealth.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:01 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,514,836 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
I started out with nothing. I payed my way through college working two full time jobs.
And what if you're not healthy or simply old?

Quote:
Come on, pull yourself up by your own boot straps and stop expecting anyone else to do it for you.
I pay my government to take care of me.
Our social security net is superior to yours because of our socialist ideals.
It is the Dutch who are united because of our solidarity and not the individual American who has to take care of himself, or if he has enough money pay others a fortune to take care of him.
It is a fact that the majority of the Dutch who migrated to America in the '50's come back to Holland because being old in America is either too difficult (when you can't drive anymore) or because it costs a fortune.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,250,335 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Noahma And what if you're not healthy or simply old?
Um... I have Multiple Sclerosis. I still managed to work 2 full time jobs, and get myself though college. Our government does have a system in place which I am not at all against to help those that cannot work, or are old. Although the government has managed to screw that system up as well.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,514,836 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
Um... I have Multiple Sclerosis.
And yet you Americans simply conclude that poverty is a direct result of not being motivated to work.
If there is 1 thing the poor are that is motivated; they're highly motivated to rise out of the poverty.
Unfortunately the rich don't want that, because being poor is the only motivation for an individual to accept a job at a sweatshop.
And how will rich corporations make a profit when they lose all their cheap labour?
It is a simple fact that the rich have nothing to gain and everything to loose if they truly tried to combat poverty.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,250,335 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Noahma And yet you Americans simply conclude that poverty is a direct result of not being motivated to work.
If there is 1 thing the poor are that is motivated; they're highly motivated to rise out of the poverty.
Unfortunately the rich don't want that, because being poor is the only motivation for an individual to accept a job at a sweatshop.
And how will rich corporations make a profit when they lose all their cheap labour?
It is a simple fact that the rich have nothing to gain and everything to loose if they truly tried to combat poverty.
I don't know what you are talking about, you have admittedly never been to the U.S. and do not know our culture. The poor in our country have every opportunity to pull themselves out through countless organizations, countless scholarships to get a higher education, countless government programs, yet they stay poor. What kind of incentive is there if the government is cutting you a check each week to cover all of your costs, and the size of that check increases with each kid you pop out? There is NO incentive to pull yourself out. Scholarships that are available for every single thing you can think of, (the 5500.00 scholarship program for left handed people, or the 3000 scholarship for hazel eyed people come to mind) if they truly wanted to be out of the swaller, they can do it. I grew up in a poor family, Yet I managed to get myself an education, and get a very good job as an Architectural Designer. Yes, it was hard, but well worth the work, I can hold my head up high because I did it, I did it with no help, and ANYONE in America has the same opportunities.
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