Is America Really THAT Divided? (Rush Limbaugh, Iraq, poll, radical)

[mackinac81]

I was going to post this in the politics forum, but decided I'd get better answer here. First here are my observations.

As a history student I can think of only three periods when Americans were this divided:

1) The Civil War era
2) 1960s/Vietnam and
3) Today.

I'm stunned at the sheer hatred that liberals and conservatives have for each other. It's one thing to disagree, even strongly, but it's more than that--almost like a civil war without the guns. What's especially disturbing is that this division is sectional. We talk about "Red" states and "Blue" states. Between 2000 and 2004 the electoral map was basically the same, and it looks like it'll shape up the same way this year. (Give or take a few) It's not good when people with different ideologies are concentrated in separate parts of the country.

My question to you all is...

1. Do you think this division in America is overblown, or is there real deep seated animosity among us?
2. Is this the most divisive era you've seen in your lifetimes? I'd especially like responses from people who lived through the 60s
3. When and how did this division come about, and what, if anything, can resolve it?

I'm not interested in slams against the president or Democrats, just a great debate about what appears to be an un-civil war.

Thanks!
Mackinac

[B.H81]

1. I don't think its overblown, I think its to the point of being fabricated. I think this is used to play the blame game instead of taking corrective action. I honestly belive this is due to the overal lack of education we have in america.

2. I'm only 27 so I haven't seen much, but I have traveled the world extensively in the navy and I think we are behind what I have seen in a lot of counties. We are diverse, but not to the point where we should be. A lot of people just don't want to be intergrated.

3. I feel the change came when Bill Clinton got in office. When I was in high school it was a lot of hate for him in the suburban school I went too. But when I transfered to a inner city school he was a superstar. Next you have the churches getting involved with politics, I think this brought a big change in how we view things. People who attend church listen to those key words like "family values" and "back to tradition" will tend to vote on that ticket no matter what the other key issues are.

[vickilynn]

I am 43. This is definitely the most divisive time period of my life time. I'm not sure what is going to happen and that makes me scared for our future.

This is a good question, and I am looking forward to how others answer. I don't have any ideas on how we can resolve this situation. If the economy turns around, that will help. Fear tends to bring out the worst in people.

[rightofcenter]

I wonder this same thing almost every day. I was a kid in the 60's but from what I remember and from studying the history of it I think the 60's were more divided - and definitely more violent. However, I often think that a lot of what we are experiencing today is a result of the 60's with the young people in the 60’s now being in charge of a lot of this country.

I am not blaming everything on him but I do believe that Rush Limbaugh and people like him have made it not only more acceptable to be divisive today but a matter of pride and strength to be divisive. His formative years were in the 50’s and 60’s and he talks a lot about how it influenced him. He talks about the 60’s a lot and the ‘radicals’ to him that were so destructive.

I don’t think it was divisive in the 70’s like it is today. The 70’s were a healing time for this country. The 80’s were when people like Rush started and a time when the lines that were drawn in the 60’s started to manifest themselves again. This just continued to grow in the 90’s and grow even more into the 21st Century. We may be close to the divisiveness of the 60’s only this time without the violence.

But then I think about history like you mentioned and can’t help but wonder if it has always been like this and I just don’t know about it.

How’s this for a big old I don’t know?

[calmdude]

If you look over in the poll in the Politics forum, the people seem to want the US to split into 2. I do not think an average joe on the street wants this, but it is telling.

[mackinac81]

If you look over in the poll in the Politics forum, the people seem to want the US to split into 2. I do not think an average joe on the street wants this, but it is telling.

I know. That's partly what prompted my thread.

Originally Posted by: Rightofcenter
However, I often think that a lot of what we are experiencing today is a result of the 60's with the young people in the 60’s now being in charge of a lot of this country.

I wonder if the rise of Rush and Clinton, both boomers, helped bring those old sixties divisions back to life...(?)

[sueprnova]

I'm 46 and I do think it is a very divisive time. Some of us want it to go back to when it was ok to go trick or treating 1 mile away from your home and had no worries and when mom stayed home and dad went to work or to ride your bike miles from home and be home by dinnertime safely..but thats not how it is now.
I raised my kids very conservatively. 2 of 3 hold those ideals near and dear.
I do indeed believe in the right to be who you want or do what you 'feel'. Just don't MAKE me accept it. And do not denigrate me when I tell you why it's not ok with me.
A lot of people would rather just accept things(to do so would be non-pc) than to step up and be a voice.
To me a lot of things that are happening now are asking me to accept the unacceptable. And I cannot do that. If I don't stand by my convictions then i will fall for anything.
Society has loosened it's so called reins... have things REALLY gotten any better? I don't care what party has been in 'power'. Each ruling that gets overturned stirs up more trouble that we know what to do with.
Can we go back to yesteryear? No, but can we, one person at a time, bring back a shred of moral fiber to the country? I think so.

[Frankie117]

Politics has a rather notorious history of causing divisiveness and even violence. People hold to their political standings that it can be considered a personal attack of sorts when someone disagrees.

And no, I don't think we're all that divided. It may see like we have a lot of conflicting views, but every country does. It usually takes something big to unite us (World War II comes to mind..)

But I can agree that people and political parties alike are moving more towards personal attacks, as well as pointing out everything that is wrong instead of steering us in the right direction. It is a never-ending vicious cycle that has continued (and will continue) since politics became a popular thing.

Do I believe some people are too entrenched in their political ideologies? Yes. Do I feel it is right to hate someone for their beliefs? No. But in the end, what can you do about it?

[stock66]

I don't know that we are any more divided than we ever were, we just have a lot more exposure to people with different ideals than we have in the past.
In the past you were much more likely to be born, grow up and stay in the same area of the country. Chances are it was going to be a place where you were comfortable and knew lots of people with similar ideals as you.
In the 60's you saw hippies and freaks on TV but you may not have really known any of them personally. I mean if you were a 50 something conservative were you going to be hanging out and talking to an 18 year old war protester? Probably not, unless it was your own kid then you would just be shaking your head and wondering what the heck went wrong just the same as parents have through out time
We have such a huge range of contact and info that was never available to us in the past. How many cable channels, Blogs, Internet news sources, and forums can you read? You are debating issues with people that you never would have been exposed to. Also people feel free to post strong views anonymously that they would never voice face to face.
So for the most part I think the same diversity was there, you just didn't know about it.

[Niners fan]

I have to agree with the two posts above that we might not be as divided as the media portrays. A big event like an attack on American soil would unite us (for a time) pretty quickly.

But politics tends to be divisive by its nature. The 24 hour news channels don't help that. Plus, the political parties like to pit us against one another. One of the major parties is particularly adept at stirring up class warfare. And often time the party out of power likes to paint a picture of doom and gloom for the purpose of rolling out their fixes.

I do think we are in a particularly divisive time. I have thought about this a bit over the last few years. I believe that we are at a time where the goals of Americans are different. Diversity of ideas is good. Diversity of skin color or ethnicity is fine. Diversity of goals is divisive. That is why a tragedy like 9/11 united us for a time. We had the same goal of healing and retribution.

In the past I think we were more likely to have the same goals but different opinions of how to reach those goals. That is why the Civil War and 1960s were so divisive. There were different goals among large groups of people. For the same reason I think the war in Iraq adds to our divisiveness.

Here are some examples. They are necessarily going to be political but I will try to state them in an apolitical fashion. Obama is blatantly campaigning for income redistribution. I know that is an old idea but he is very open about it. For some that is a laudable goal and for others it is bad economic policy as well as simply unfair. It seems like in the past we at least had a united goal of growing the economy. There was the goal of helping the middle class and the different opinions of whether stronger unions and tariffs were best or supply-side theory.

How about the environment? It is easy to agree to reduce pollution. We might have different ways of getting there, i.e. market forces vs regulations, but we agree that pollution should be reduced. However, when CO2 is defined as a pollutant then many disagree with that categorization and thus the need to reduced it. Suddenly, we differ on the goal and not just the method of getting there.

Just a couple of examples. I could think of a few more but I am short on time at the moment.