U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-17-2008, 11:49 AM
 
697 posts, read 1,775,901 times
Reputation: 361

Advertisements

Again, I wasn't aware that in order to post to this thread, I was supposed to agree with everybody. I was equally unaware that my parenting and my child would come under attack because of offering a different point of view.

In the future, to stimulate a positive, well rounded 'debate', I would suggest that the thread originator specifies the opinion being looked for at the onset of the thread. But then, that wouldn't be a debate, now would it... hmm. Perhaps this thread should be in a different section, since a dabate is clearly not what was expected.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-17-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,259,218 times
Reputation: 18984
Quote:
Originally Posted by 925mine View Post
Again, I wasn't aware that in order to post to this thread, I was supposed to agree with everybody.
Obviously this is not the case... if everybody was supposed to agree with everybody we would all agree with you. In a debate you state an opinion and expect people to disagree with you. That's what happened here.

There have been many different opinions in this thread. A number of people had concerns about sanitary conditions, allergies, stressed animals, etc. Your post would not have provoked the response it did if you had simply said "my child has a phobia, how would you suggest dealing with a challenge like that?"

What provoked people was your comment about pepper spray. Try to put the shoe on the other foot. How would you feel if I wrote this:

"I'm afraid of little children. So, if a child wanders up to me in a park, I shoot her with a dose of pepper spray." Wouldn't you respond?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2008, 12:09 PM
 
2,352 posts, read 5,349,377 times
Reputation: 3846
The residents had plenty of time to evacuate and a lot didn't. This puts a massive strain on the emergency personnel, who have responsibilities far and beyond the chore of rescuing people.
Evacuees left without their pets? No way Jose!! They are family and if I can leave a natural disaster, so can they. Again, another burden on rescue services to round up these orphaned pets and get them to safety.
__________________
Sileo in pacis matris.
-----------
Terms of Service
FAQ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,259,218 times
Reputation: 18984
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7th generation View Post
Again, another burden on rescue services to round up these orphaned pets and get them to safety.
Great point, and something that hasn't even been touched on yet. Yes, hundreds of stressed-out dogs that have been "set free" could be a real problem for the rescue services. Even if they don't have to rescue them, just having to deal with abandoned dogs wandering in the streets could be a real burden.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2008, 06:58 PM
 
239 posts, read 624,521 times
Reputation: 67
i wonder how she would feel if someone pepper sprayed her kid the next time she shows out at the grocery store? i have a phobia about bratty kids...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2008, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,005,745 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
What provoked people was your comment about pepper spray. Try to put the shoe on the other foot. How would you feel if I wrote this:

"I'm afraid of little children. So, if a child wanders up to me in a park, I shoot her with a dose of pepper spray." Wouldn't you respond?
Depends on the kid. I have know several I would help you spray down. Get you refills if you ran out, too.

On a more serious and topic related point. Texas law requires that public transport accept pets during evacuations. There is no legal premise for denying transport to pets.

However, there could be practical reasons such as space, pet behavior (aggression safety concerns etc) or public reaction. If I were a bus driver and had a person wanting to board a dog (or cat, bird, or snake) and had a person onboard throwing a wild scream fit due to their phobia I would recognize that they cannot coexist and I would have to decide who gets to stay. You would win the bet if you put your money on the person rather than the pet. I would not give a tinkers damn for the owner's feeling in the situation since I would be dealing with an emergency situation and would not consider for a moment putting a human being out of the bus in favor of the pet, no matter how much of a family member it was and no matter how cute and cuddley it is.

I would consider the human life to be much more valuable than a pets life and if the passenger could not tolerate the pet, the pet stays. If the owner wants to stay behind with the pet, that is their call. If the passenger with the problem offers to stay behind, that is okay with me too. I feel they have free will and can make that potential sacrifice if they choose. I will not force them to make that offer and would not dream of suggesting it to them.

I feel human life is of more potential value than pet life. If I had two people who could not get along together, one of them can stay behind too. Normally people are wise enough to keep away from each other under these circumstances, but if not the door can always be opened and one can catch the next bus. That would be an extreme scenario, but then that is what we are discussing with this phobia issue too.

On a less extreme level, many people have to leave pets behind because they are not pampered indoor pooches or kitties and will not permit themselves to be caged or crated. Other people are too sick or frail to control their pets and get themselves onto a bus. Sometimes pets are left behind because they are already panicky and cannot be caught to evacuate.

I know a lady with over 40 cats. How do you figure she would handle catching and caging all those cats, assuming they would allow her to do so, and then carry all those cages to the bus? How would you feel if there was no room on the bus for you because she took up 15 seats for her cat cages?

It is fine to take a stand that no pet should ever be left behind, but consider other factors that make that altruistic stand impractical for some.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2008, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Crossville TN
179 posts, read 497,424 times
Reputation: 50
I think it may be advisable to go a step before all this: Some people should just not be allowed to have a pet period, how many times do you see dogs chained outside and NOT properly cared for etc. More likely then not these would be the same people that then also leave them behind in emergency.
Therefore personally I'd tackle the issue before the "emergency" situation and restrict certain individuals to have pets.
See if you adopt a kid, you have got to be THE super parent on more then one level. But if you "just" get pregnant, no one question's your ability. If you "just" buy a dog no one seems to do that neither. Even if you have been taken away your dog/ cat before due not neglect, sometimes this does not even get followed up and you could go right back to the Shelter & adopt another one.
THAT is the point I'd start "working against"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2008, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Michigan
859 posts, read 1,859,329 times
Reputation: 458
My friend has a Pet cow ,,,, so its ok for him to take the cow she is friendly ! ?

I love Dogs, but if a dog runs towards me, jumps on me and the dumb owner doesnt do nothing but call his/her Name you bet you sweet Tush I use my pepper Spray. And then the Owner gets a Chewing.

I am tired of hearing the * OH he/she just want to say hello* or the * Oh he/she didnt mean too*

If you decide to stay behind with youre Pet make sure YOU have everything needed and dont have to use up the TIME and MONEY to rescue youre Buns AFTER.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2008, 05:37 AM
 
Location: NY
1,416 posts, read 4,900,342 times
Reputation: 588
Johnrex62, that was a fantastic post. I won't take up page space by quoting it all, but just want to say that I agree 100% with every point that you made. In emergency situations, tough decisions have to be made that are not necessarily fair to all concerned, and to expect ordinary rules to apply in extraordinary circumstances is just being unrealistic.

As to the 'sidebar' pepper-spray discussion, IMO it's way off topic to what we're supposed to be debating and is bordering on the personal sniping that I thought this forum was specifically structured to avoid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2008, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,259,218 times
Reputation: 18984
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyfrazzled View Post
In emergency situations, tough decisions have to be made that are not necessarily fair to all concerned, and to expect ordinary rules to apply in extraordinary circumstances is just being unrealistic.
A lot of wisdom here.

As an example, they might set a rule about weight restrictions (so people won't try to put a cow on a bus). But is that practical? Would buses be required to carry scales? Sometimes you just have to do the best you can to get through an emergency, and that may mean making unfortunate decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyfrazzled View Post
As to the 'sidebar' pepper-spray discussion, IMO it's way off topic
Yes, I agree. I was thinking about making it a new thread ("What is and is not considered animal cruelty") but I didn't because I couldn't personally participate in such a thread. The whole subject just makes my blood boil, and for health reasons I need to avoid getting riled up. (That's why I don't read the election forum anymore, LOL). But you're right, it doesn't really belong here.

Last edited by normie; 09-18-2008 at 07:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top