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Old 02-06-2009, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,342,081 times
Reputation: 4893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
That's irrelevant, since you're making the case that because prostitution is legal in one state (Nevada) it is okay to practice (in that state). Thus you are showing a system of beliefs whereby legality equals morality.
Morality is personal - Defining morals is like trying to define ethics.

The point is - to those who practice prostitution, and to those who patronize prostitutes, they find it "moral". The fact you do not is up to you.

Some do not believe gambling is "moral". Others do. It is a personal choice.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 639,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Morality is personal - Defining morals is like trying to define ethics.

The point is - to those who practice prostitution, and to those who patronize prostitutes, they find it "moral". The fact you do not is up to you.

Some do not believe gambling is "moral". Others do. It is a personal choice.

I believe you are just diverting the course of the discussion. You've basically made it clear that you take your sense of morality from the law. You said you be okay with your kids being prostitutes since the law allows them to do so, although you would not be pleased with their choices, you would still be okay with them. That implies you have nothing against prostitution so long as it is legal. It naturally follows that if you were in Niger, you would not be opposed to rape, since it is legal there. I don't base my morality on what the law says.

If the state of Ohio suddenly legalized rape, or if the government vanished in the wake of some world war three apocalypse, I wouldn't go out and start raping and maiming people, regardless of whether or not the law said I could, or whether or not there was simply no longer any presence of law.

The law of the state can say whatever it wants, what is right is right, what is wrong is wrong, the laws of men mean virtually nothing to me.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,342,081 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I believe you are just diverting the course of the discussion. You've basically made it clear that you take your sense of morality from the law. You said you be okay with your kids being prostitutes since the law allows them to do so,
No, that is not what I said.

I said, it is THEIR CHOICE - not mine, to make. I said that if what they choose to do is legal, the choice is up to them. I am not going to judge "morality" - my children are strong enough to make their own moral choices.

No, I don't take my "sense of morality" from the law. For instance, the law does not require me to stop and help a homeless person. But, I do.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,342,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
The law of the state can say whatever it wants, what is right is right, what is wrong is wrong, the laws of men mean virtually nothing to me.
So, I take it then that since the max speed on a freeway is say, 65 mph, since the "laws of men" mean nothing to you, you would choose to do 100 mph? And, what if a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket for speeding? Do you ignore it inasmuch as "the laws of men" mean nothing to you?
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 639,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
No, that is not what I said.

I said, it is THEIR CHOICE - not mine, to make. I said that if what they choose to do is legal, the choice is up to them. I am not going to judge "morality" - my children are strong enough to make their own moral choices.


Again, you are not saying "I would do whatever is legal" but you are saying "I would accept them doing whatever they decide, if they decide to do something that is legal, even if I personally disagree with the choice" meaning you would not condemn your child for doing something (such as rape in Niger) as long as it is legal.

If any son of mine came home, thumped his chest, and said, "dad I raped a woman earlier tonight" I'd determine whether it was true or whether it was crazy drunk talk, his idea of a sick joke, etc, and if it was true, I'd shotgun him myself and then apologize to the woman and her family and offer them what help I could.

When you bring a life into this world you're responsible for raising the child, helping them become a proper adult, and if they go crazy and become a menace to society, you have an obligation to put a stop to their actions. Ted Bundy's parents should have put him down when he started torturing animals to death and threatening people with knives when he was barely five years old. I read about one school spree shooter who started microwaving ground-hogs when he was a young teenager. There's simply no excuse for that. That is disgusting and warrants at the least immediate attention, counselling, imprisonment, etc, and the most, put him down.

When somebody acts like a mad dog, a wild animal, they should get put down like one.

I don't like the idea of "let your conscience be your guide" since some people have a moral compass that is so skewed they couldn't find north ten miles away from the North Pole, and they couldn't find a corner in a square room. I say let scripture be your guide. Every man should learn The Law and live it to the best of his ability.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 639,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
So, I take it then that since the max speed on a freeway is say, 65 mph, since the "laws of men" mean nothing to you, you would choose to do 100 mph? And, what if a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket for speeding? Do you ignore it inasmuch as "the laws of men" mean nothing to you?


What a misquote!

I said "virtually nothing" in regards to the laws of men.


Speed limits are inherently wrong. People should drive in a manner that conditions warrant. When out west, on absolutely clear roads, with nobody in front of me for 5-10 miles, on a flat road, I don't hesitate to get up to 90-95 miles per hour for a while. When on a snow covered road in NE Ohio, even with a 50 mile per hour speed limit, I keep it around 20-25 because that is what I can safely handle.

I would be in favor of abolishing all traffic laws. People will drive safely because it is the right thing to do. However, if your recklessness costs somebody their life, your life is forfeit. Maintain traffic lights, stop signs, etc, but do not arrest people or ticket them for failing to adhere to them, simply punish them if their behavior results in injury or death. I imagine most people would adhere to the signs and there would be few repeat offenders.

When the roads, weather, and traffic conditions allow for going 100 miles per hour, you should feel free to do so. When the posted limit is 65 miles per hour but the road is covered with ice, you probably shouldn't be going anything more than 20-25 miles per hour (if even that).

I don't believe police should be allowed to ticket somebody for speeding. If your speeding/recklessness results in somebody being killed, then you are stoned to death, it's that simple. I believe this system will result in most people conducting themselves in a careful and reasonable manner.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,342,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I don't believe police should be allowed to ticket somebody for speeding..
\

What you "believe"; what you "wish", is not, in fact, reality.

If you operate a motor vechile in this country, if you have a drivers license in this country, you have AGREED to abide by all laws relating to the operation of that motor vehicle - including staying within the posted speed limit. If you exceed that speed, you are subject to a citation, or, in some cases, jail.

Time for you to come to the realization that what you "believe" is not real world.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 639,249 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
\

What you "believe"; what you "wish", is not, in fact, reality.

If you operate a motor vechile in this country, if you have a drivers license in this country, you have AGREED to abide by all laws relating to the operation of that motor vehicle - including staying within the posted speed limit. If you exceed that speed, you are subject to a citation, or, in some cases, jail.

Time for you to come to the realization that what you "believe" is not real world.

I'm quite aware of what the present reality of American law is. I was speaking in terms of what I believe should be the reality (aka, how I think things should be done instead).

Maybe you didn't know this, but the posted limited is not the maximum permitted speed. If the road conditions or weather warrant it, you are expected to reduce your speed accordingly (so if you get pulled over in a blizzard for driving 50 mph when the posted limited is 50, you'll know why).
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,713,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
If you don't know who Molech is then you've obviously never read the bible. Molech was a false god (primarily of the Canaanites) to whom children (typically infants) were sacrificed. They were typically "passed through the fire" to Molech.

I believe the modern equivalent of sacrifice to Molech could be said to be abortion. Society (supposedly) wouldn't stand for throwing babies onto bonfires, but they believe that killing of an unborn child in the womb is a sacrament worthy of public funds and judicial protection.


America is falling apart exactly as foretold in Deuteronomy 28, that's the plain and simple truth. Don't debate it if you haven't read it.
OK...so what does Molech have to do with our society? Are you saying that it is appropriate to incenerate prostitutes? And in Dueteronomy 28 --after I read it, I looked it over again. I couldn't find any reference to America.

So, why do you want to burn prostitutes? I don't get it.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,618,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
Aside from the fact that most prostitutes are kept in that lifestyle by ongoing violence or threats of violence from their pimps?

It's sort of like a cult, you may be able to join voluntarily, but you cannot just pack up and leave if you decide you want to do so later on.
Not if prostitution is run like the brothels in Nevada. If that was the case, then they can get out of it whenever they want to, and it's very safe for everyone involved.
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