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Old 03-17-2009, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Okay...

Our founding father's also thought that slavery was okay. That it was moral and just to do so.

Your point?

As you said, the laws at that time were founded on morality (and religion - most states had a state religion before the constitution) but that does not make it right to do so today. You know how the constitution is a living document and all that jazz? Yea, I think you missed that part.
I will concede that what we think is OK or not OK changes over time. You do understand, however, that the laws banning these things were in place AFTER the Constitution, right? And yes I understand the Constitution is evolving and is a living document. It's just that I really don't want to see the world have even more lax morals than it does today - I don't think we're headed in the right direction at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Fair enough, it'd be the same with alcohol (whether to be wet or dry).
If we were to do this, we'd need to have strict requirements for the prostitutes. Weekly STD tests, requiring condoms, requiring birth control, etc. I believe they have requirements like that in Nevada.
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,229,066 times
Reputation: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Okay...

Our founding father's also thought that slavery was okay. That it was moral and just to do so.

As you said, the laws at that time were founded on morality (and religion - most states had a state religion before the constitution) but that does not make it right to do so today. You know how the constitution is a living document and all that jazz? Yea, I think you missed that part.
actually not all of our founding fathers agreed on slavery, for example: Thomas Jefferson. He was including slaves when he wrote that all men are created equal, it only took this country almost 200 more years to realize his dream . And the only reason slavery was included in the laws was colonies like South Carolina, I mean SC started an entire civil war to hold onto its beliefs, you think the colonies could afford a division and fight the British for independence?

And its hard to imagine a country making its laws based on religion when they declare a separation of church and sate and independence from a monarch (a person placed in power by divine right according to the time) This country had no place for religion in government then, and it SHOULD NOT now. but to get back on the subject

legalizing prostitution should be done, it is all over the world and its an unstopable occurance. and keeping it illegal drives up the price and thus more and more money is going into the hands of some shady people. its wierd to think about but in a way legalizing prostitution actually could be good for women because it would cut back on human trafficing.
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 640,558 times
Reputation: 250
A better argument must be made for legalizing prostitution aside from "the government can make money on something that will happen anyway."

If that's the only criteria then why not legalize contract killings? Most of them are mobster-on-mobster, this way the government can make money off the mob when the mob wants to clean up its own backyard. It'll happen anyway...


I know, that may sound ridiculous, but I would hope the point is well-made. There must be better arguments for legalizing prostitution aside from "it will happen anyway and we can make money off it" so go ahead and make them.

Would any parent let their child smoke cigarettes because "they might just do it anyway" so long as the kid pays a fee to be able to smoke?
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,543,418 times
Reputation: 5210
I look at it this way, if the goverment says that it is ok to have an abortion and that a womans body is her own, then what right does any goverment body have to tell a woman (of age of majority) not being coerced that they cannot sell her body for money.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
I look at it this way, if the goverment says that it is ok to have an abortion and that a womans body is her own, then what right does any goverment body have to tell a woman (of age of majority) not being coerced that they cannot sell her body for money.
The government needs to start saying that it is NOT OK for a woman to have an abortion. The woman's body may be her own, but the child's body is not.

Also...as far as prostitution...the minimum age in all but 2 Nevada counties that allow prostitution is 21.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,717,419 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
A better argument must be made for legalizing prostitution aside from "the government can make money on something that will happen anyway."

If that's the only criteria then why not legalize contract killings? Most of them are mobster-on-mobster, this way the government can make money off the mob when the mob wants to clean up its own backyard. It'll happen anyway...


I know, that may sound ridiculous, but I would hope the point is well-made. There must be better arguments for legalizing prostitution aside from "it will happen anyway and we can make money off it" so go ahead and make them.

Would any parent let their child smoke cigarettes because "they might just do it anyway" so long as the kid pays a fee to be able to smoke?
Murder, smoking around childeren....these activities have unwilling victims.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,717,419 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The government needs to start saying that it is NOT OK for a woman to have an abortion. The woman's body may be her own, but the child's body is not.
.
Why? Because of religious reasons? Let's think for a minute:
When does life start:
1. Catholic Church--when couples get married because the lives of children are defined in heaven--hence no contraception, no abortion.
2. Upon conception--even though the embryo couldn't survive outside the womb. What about spontaneous miscarriages...we should punish those women who put their unborn children at risk???
3. Upon birth--several religions support this.
4. A week after birth--several religions support this.
5. Upon weaning...I've heard of some cultures supporting this.

OK....for a moment try to be logical and leave the religion out of the discussion.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
Why? Because of religious reasons? Let's think for a minute:
When does life start:
1. Catholic Church--when couples get married because the lives of children are defined in heaven--hence no contraception, no abortion.
2. Upon conception--even though the embryo couldn't survive outside the womb. What about spontaneous miscarriages...we should punish those women who put their unborn children at risk???
3. Upon birth--several religions support this.
4. A week after birth--several religions support this.
5. Upon weaning...I've heard of some cultures supporting this.

OK....for a moment try to be logical and leave the religion out of the discussion.
Life starts at conception IMO. I'm not against birth control or even the morning after pill. What I AM against is killing a child that is already starting to develop.

The line as far as when exactly life begins is ALWAYS going to be a very fine one. Think about this....medical breakthroughs are allowing babies to survive outside their mothers' wombs far earlier than ever before. This trend will continue.

In fact, the trend in the future may be to replace pregnancy entirely by artificial wombs...

The End of Pregnancy

Anyone who does not want or cannot handle a child should have only protected sex or (ideally) no sex at all. And, if you get pregnant and do not want to care for the child, there's always adoption.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,717,419 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
if you get pregnant and do not want to care for the child, there's always adoption.
You adopt any unwanted children?
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 951,854 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I will concede that what we think is OK or not OK changes over time. You do understand, however, that the laws banning these things were in place AFTER the Constitution, right?
Well duh, they sure didn't change before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
And yes I understand the Constitution is evolving and is a living document. It's just that I really don't want to see the world have even more lax morals than it does today - I don't think we're headed in the right direction at all.
And here we go about morality again. I wonder what do people really think of when they think of the 'morals' and 'morality' of our yester years. It is the 'morality' in honor killings? Or the moral in having children working 14 hour days. Was it moral when we subjugated blacks and other minorites? Or was it moral when the intermittent camps we had for Japanese Americans? Were we moral when we lynched blacks for no reason at all and had the KKK running around like cockroaches? Or were we 'moral' when we started this war on drugs that caused more lives to be lost, more families to be destroyed than before? Was it moral when we were the ones who put Sadam in power, or were we moral when we went to Vietnam?

This whole thing of 'morality' and the moral fabric of society degenerating is a complete farce. We've always had it, it's just people are more open about it today than they were 50, 100, and 200 years ago. The same things happened. But you didn't hear about it nearly as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
If we were to do this, we'd need to have strict requirements for the prostitutes. Weekly STD tests, requiring condoms, requiring birth control, etc. I believe they have requirements like that in Nevada.
You mean how it is at the Bunny Ranch in Nevada? No one is talking about legalizing prostitution and letting them run wild! It needs to be taxed and regulated like any other business and industry would be. It's only common sense to do the things you mentioned above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
And its hard to imagine a country making its laws based on religion when they declare a separation of church and sate and independence from a monarch (a person placed in power by divine right according to the time) This country had no place for religion in government then, and it SHOULD NOT now. but to get back on the subject.
I was actually talking about the era previous to the second constitution (because the articles of confederation was the first). It was common for states to have their own state religion and no one batted an eye at it. It was only when the new constitution was written that the state religion was abolished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
legalizing prostitution should be done, it is all over the world and its an unstopable occurance. and keeping it illegal drives up the price and thus more and more money is going into the hands of some shady people. its wierd to think about but in a way legalizing prostitution actually could be good for women because it would cut back on human trafficing.
Completely agree.

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