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Old 04-27-2009, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,611 times
Reputation: 558

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Interesting explanation. Morality? No, not all laws are based on morality. Some are based on safety, traffic lights is one example.
Some are for security, no traspassing is another.
Some for property protection, do not walk on the grass.
but thats still all based on morals, morals meaning what we accept as right and wrong. I think it is wrong to walk into a strangers yard and dig a hole, so we have laws protecting people's property. Traffic lights are still morals, the transportation people decided it was wrong to just have drivers aimlessly crossing intersections and getting into accidents, so we made laws forcing them to drive safer... its all still moral based.


Quote:
However, in some cases there may not be any moral principles involved. Do not murder. This is a law that has its origins on the natural instinct of man to protect his life. Some call this a natural right of man for that simple reason. It does not have to have anything with it being a moral principle if you just look at it from the natural instinct of survival. Eventually some wise ruler who may have been very observant may have made a law claiming that the Sun-God says you cannot murder. This may be solely for the survival of a tribe.
again its morals, we do not want everyone murdering everyone so we make a law against it.

Quote:
Many of the morals people want to impose have nothing to do with the natural rights of man. Prostitution is mostly based on something some people claim God said. However, sexual desire and satisfaction is a personal and private thing we pretty much are born with. To say that somebody is prohibited because God said so or because they do not like it or because it is considered disgusting, etc. is not a reason to impose that type of morals on others.
This is where majority comes into play. We have a lot of different opinions on a lot of subjects, and thats why the majority rules. We cannot allow a few people to impose their will on the rest of us. The majority rule eliminates that issue. Now instead of needing to convince a king or dictator you just have to convince whatever % of your representatives is needed to pass a law. God has nothing to do with it, its all about your legislators.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
but thats still all based on morals, morals meaning what we accept as right and wrong.s.
Accept, on what basis? Can the people arbitrarily accept anything as right and wrong, according to what suits their personal interests? Can we decide that murder is going to be moral from now on? Or that swallowing raw eggs (or any other natural substance, if you get my drift) is immoral, simply because a majority thinks it is just too disgusting to even think about?

To a typical Somali, piracy is quite moral, while a Victoria Secret catalog is immoral. Who gets to decide if they are right or not, about that?
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Accept, on what basis? Can the people arbitrarily accept anything as right and wrong, according to what suits their personal interests? Can we decide that murder is going to be moral from now on? Or that swallowing raw eggs (or any other natural substance, if you get my drift) is immoral, simply because a majority thinks it is just too disgusting to even think about?
YES!!! If you can convince 70%(or whatever is needed for majority) of our legislature and the Supreme court rules it to be ok and the president veto is not used anything can become law and I do mean anything.

Quote:
To a typical Somali, piracy is quite moral, while a Victoria Secret catalog is immoral. Who gets to decide if they are right or not, about that?
Well if everyone had a free and open democracy then it would be up to the people of each country to decide. but in Somalia's case I would say its the morals of whoever has the most guns. Its not that I am saying because its their laws i am okay with it, I am saying its their laws based on SOMEONEs morals. its always based on morals.
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,716,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Accept, on what basis? Can the people arbitrarily accept anything as right and wrong, according to what suits their personal interests?
Sure, why not? As long as it doesn't directly harm another person. Of couse some activities need to be regulated and controlled via zoning.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post



Well if everyone had a free and open democracy then it would be up to the people of each country to decide. but in Somalia's case I would say its the morals of whoever has the most guns. Its not that I am saying because its their laws i am okay with it, I am saying its their laws based on SOMEONEs morals. its always based on morals.
Are you sure? In Somalia, it is quite possible that a pretty substantial part of their GNP comes from hijacking ships at sea, and the majority of the population is probably OK with that. Maybe that's where they get half their food and would go hungry without it.

In Paraguay, nearly every family has at least one member who is in the business of acquring goods in Brazil and smuggling them to Argentina. They have free elections there, and the people do not seem to be very zealous about banning the practice of smuggling. It represents a part of their GNP. There aren't very many debates going on in Paraguay about the morality of evading import duties.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Are you sure? In Somalia, it is quite possible that a pretty substantial part of their GNP comes from hijacking ships at sea, and the majority of the population is probably OK with that. Maybe that's where they get half their food and would go hungry without it.

In Paraguay, nearly every family has at least one member who is in the business of acquring goods in Brazil and smuggling them to Argentina. They have free elections there, and the people do not seem to be very zealous about banning the practice of smuggling. It represents a part of their GNP. There aren't very many debates going on in Paraguay about the morality of evading import duties.
I can't tell if you are arguing with or against me but here I go anyway

Somalia does not seem to have much law enforcement if any so I dont think we have to worry about their laws being based on morality if no one is enforcing them. And Paraguay is the same as I have been saying, to their population it is not morally wrong, so they allow it to happen. All laws are based on at least 1 person's morality. Now there is at least 1 thread already addressing this issue so if you want to argue it some more please post it there.

Getting back to prostitution. I do not understand the logic that says keeping it illegal is a better practice when its clear that nothing good comes from it in its current form. I think it needs to be legalized but kept in brothels, and then leave it up to the individual townships to decide what kind of zoning laws they require for the brothels. Also I only would allow legalization if it meant we could tax the revenue, otherwise there is no point.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post

Somalia does not seem to have much law enforcement if any so I don't think we have to worry about their laws being based on morality if no one is enforcing them. .
You need to worry about it if you assert that laws are based on morality, or that laws define morality. You need to worry about whether you can defend your argument or not.

There are many countries, not just Somalia, in which the laws are somewhat arbitrarily imposed and/or enforced. That doesn't make them better or worse than ours, it only means that thay are arrived at through a different legislative process. They are still the applicable laws within the structure of the community, and people either obey them or face potential sanctions.

For ordinary people on the street in Somalia, life goes on, with people treating each other with respect and dignity and courtesy, the same as has been true in their culture for centuries. Everybody has a sense of what is moral. These days, that sense is sometimes ourtaged by the political vacuum, but life in Somalia goes on within a recognized and cultural moral framework.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,611 times
Reputation: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
All laws are based on at least 1 person's morality. Now there is at least 1 thread already addressing this issue so if you want to argue it some more please post it there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You need to worry about it if you assert that laws are based on morality, or that laws define morality. You need to worry about whether you can defend your argument or not.
Post your argument in either of these threads if you want to continue this

are morals an opinion?

Legislating morality
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
What does Somalia have to do with Prostitution?

Answer: NOTHING
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
Post your argument in either of these threads if you want to continue this

are morals an opinion?

Legislating morality
You mean we can talk about prostitution as long as we don't address its A) legality or B) morality?
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