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Old 06-12-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: New York City
668 posts, read 798,545 times
Reputation: 363

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tag08 View Post
What do you think of prostitution?
Most of whores are victims of international gangs, most of freer are criminals who support the sex - slavery. All brothels must be closed and all pimps traffickers jailed.Freer must be fined or sentenced to jail too.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:35 PM
 
1,543 posts, read 2,552,557 times
Reputation: 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronOB View Post
Most of whores are victims of international gangs, most of freer are criminals who support the sex - slavery. All brothels must be closed and all pimps traffickers jailed.Freer must be fined or sentenced to jail too.
A very backward view. The reason most are criminals is because its illegal. If its illegal it shoots the prices of the service way up. So criminals become involved. However, if it were legal the price would be cheaper and most prostitutes would be working as free lancers or for a brothel. Lots of the prostitutes that are working now would continue to be working. Because its the job they go into willingly.
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:06 PM
 
2,115 posts, read 2,708,174 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
eta:never mind, SV. I just read that you might have AS, which I guess accounts for your rhetoric and actually proves my point.
Never mind that your argumentation have enough holes even for me
So let's pick off the list, shall we...

Quote:
Are you really so self involved and inexperienced that you think all men are like you and yours? This is exactly one of the qualities held by troubled guys who hang out the internet. And not just guys, but a lot of people. You're under the erroneous impression that all people are carbon copies of you. If that were the case, we'd all still be writing on cave walls. But of course, since you would get a hooker and cheat on your wife, and your wife would step out on you and your crappy marriage, we all have to be charged with slumming.
You certainly have a lot of impressions about me... wow... looked at the underlined parts of your text... You must be increadible at reading a whole person through a few forum posts...
1. I've never said I'd get a hooker.
2. I clearly stated I think it's wrong if it means either of the parts are cheating.
3. I think it's a clearly well-known fact that men do have very strong sexual urges, that many also act on.
4. I do not have a wife to cheat on, I'd like to have one; but I'd never dream of cheating on her if I did.

Quote:
Um, picking up hookers while you're married is cheating and it's no different from stealing. They're character flaws. I'd call such a person a mental case as well.
1: Where in my texts do I condone cheating, especially in marriage?
2: Definition of stealing: to take claim of an object that belongs to another person.
Definition of cheating: have sexual contact with someone while in an exclusive sexual relationship with another person.
Both are clearly immoral, and both clearly have a victim, but I do not see in what other ways these two phenomenons correlate.
Maybe there should be added the definition of a protitutional transaction;
When a service of sexual nature is bought by a person, from another.
Note that a prostitutional transaction does not require cheating in itself, nor vice-versa, nor does any of these 3 require any of the other 2.

Quote:
Whatever the case. I've been watching those youtube vids with hookers that need to shower and these fat, mutant looking men spending their $20 for a few moments of human contact. As far as legalities go, it makes no difference. Whether it's legal or not there will be the same issues. It's not going to make John's anything more than they are. It's not going to make a lot of these drug addicted hookers anything more then they are. What's important, imo, is that this demographic is not breeding.
Ok so you saw some $20 hookers, I'm sure they were top off the line...

There are plenty of doctors in Africa risking their lives to save people for free in warzones who also need showers, do you despise them for their dirtiness too?
Or do you just pick at this to get a little extra wood on your fire?
Note that a prostitutional transaction does not require either part to be dirty by definition.

I'm not saying a John is a glorious person, I'm just saying he is paying for something he thinks is worth the money, and the hooker is doing something she thinks is worth doing for the money. That's their business.

"Addiction" is thrown around a lot these days, you for example are an oxygen addict. Stop breathing, you need to get rid of you addiction!

There is no known benefit of making prostitution illegal, this have been seen just recently on the streets here. what has happened is that
*The money goes to organized crime instead of the hookers pockets
*The trafficking of kidnapped women and especially under-aged women from eastern Europe has tenfolded
*The spread of STDs among hooker, johns and people who associate sexually with these have grown.
*Hookers have become forced retailers of drugdealing, putting them at new risks.
*The typical hooker have changed from being the typical (economically)desperate young girl to being forced women who are kidnapped after applying for model-jobs in foreign countries.

Even the politicians who propagated for these laws admit them as failure.
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:52 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,191,700 times
Reputation: 13392
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishViking View Post
Never mind that your argumentation have enough holes even for me
My argument about how my husband has nothing to do with the "us" of men in this thread? A man you have never and will never meet? Okaay.

Quote:
So let's pick off the list, shall we...
...
None of that makes any difference. My initial comment was to note the silly "us". And your follow up of how do I know what my husband is or isn't doing is simply nonsense as if it has any validity. It's a position I come across online quite a bit and more often than not I find commonalities among posters who extrapolate their pov to entire groups.

Quote:
Ok so you saw some $20 hookers, I'm sure they were top off the line...

There are plenty of doctors in Africa risking their lives to save people for free in warzones who also need showers, do you despise them for their dirtiness too?
Or do you just pick at this to get a little extra wood on your fire?
Note that a prostitutional transaction does not require either part to be dirty by definition.
I highly doubt doctors in Africa are ridden with genital bugs that they're passing around to the folk they're trying to help. Geesh, your comparison is just bizarre.

Quote:
I'm not saying a John is a glorious person, I'm just saying he is paying for something he thinks is worth the money, and the hooker is doing something she thinks is worth doing for the money. That's their business.

"Addiction" is thrown around a lot these days, you for example are an oxygen addict. Stop breathing, you need to get rid of you addiction!
Addiction was the term used by the hooker in the vid. Do you think these ladies are engaging with the John slop noted in the vid because it's enticing? These women have problems, plain and simple.

Quote:
There is no known benefit of making prostitution illegal, this have been seen just recently on the streets here. what has happened is that
*The money goes to organized crime instead of the hookers pockets
*The trafficking of kidnapped women and especially under-aged women from eastern Europe has tenfolded
*The spread of STDs among hooker, johns and people who associate sexually with these have grown.
*Hookers have become forced retailers of drugdealing, putting them at new risks.
*The typical hooker have changed from being the typical (economically)desperate young girl to being forced women who are kidnapped after applying for model-jobs in foreign countries.

Even the politicians who propagated for these laws admit them as failure.
I'm not sure of your position here. Human trafficking happens to be the highest in countries where prostitution is legal (clearly). Not that I'm using that as an argument against legalizing it. It's just a fact.
Netherlands- Coalition Against Trafficking of Women (http://www.catwinternational.org/factbook/Netherlands.php - broken link)
HumanTrafficking.org | News & Updates: Debating Legalized Prostitution

At the very best, there is a decrease in trafficking in locales that do not have legalized prostitution. That's certainly not an argument for legalization. It provides more trouble for your position than anything, so I'm not sure why you're bothering with it.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:19 PM
 
2,115 posts, read 2,708,174 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
My argument about how my husband has nothing to do with the "us" of men in this thread? A man you have never and will never meet? Okaay.

None of that makes any difference. My initial comment was to note the silly "us". And your follow up of how do I know what my husband is or isn't doing is simply nonsense as if it has any validity. It's a position I come across online quite a bit and more often than not I find commonalities among posters who extrapolate their pov to entire groups.
My point is you wouldn't know if he was, and if he is or isn't is irrelevant in itself, there are about 3.4 billion other men, plenty of which have or will either cheat or buy prostitute or both.


Quote:
I highly doubt doctors in Africa are ridden with genital bugs that they're passing around to the folk they're trying to help. Geesh, your comparison is just bizarre.
You made a point of them being dirty, my counterpoint is that you are using an irrelevant point about something that exists plenty elsewhere. The need of a shower is hardly a rare ocasion for most of us. As for "bugs" there are plenty of non-genital diseases that pose bigger problems.

Quote:
Addiction was the term used by the hooker in the vid. Do you think these ladies are engaging with the John slop noted in the vid because it's enticing? These women have problems, plain and simple.
Most people have problems, and people at the lower end of society usually have bigger problems.

Quote:
I'm not sure of your position here. Human trafficking happens to be the highest in countries where prostitution is legal (clearly). Not that I'm using that as an argument against legalizing it. It's just a fact.
Netherlands- Coalition Against Trafficking of Women (http://www.catwinternational.org/factbook/Netherlands.php - broken link)
HumanTrafficking.org | News & Updates: Debating Legalized Prostitution

At the very best, there is a decrease in trafficking in locales that do not have legalized prostitution. That's certainly not an argument for legalization. It provides more trouble for your position than anything, so I'm not sure why you're bothering with it.
The thing is you are looking it this from a standpoint where prostitution have probably been illegal for a long time(Or are those laws new in the US?), whilst I'm looking at it from a perspective where it was legal just a couple of years ago(in sweden).
it's actually still legal to sell sex here, but not to buy it, which practically means it goes underground anyways.
And the only thing we can see here is that the problems surrounding it have tenfolded since it became illigal.

Btw quoted from one of YOUR sources;
Quote:
"Dr. Melissa Ditmore - Prostitution should be decriminalized. This would remove prostitution from the criminal code and thereby render prostitution akin to other businesses. It’d be taxed and subject ot business requirements. Decriminalization of prostitution has been a success in New Zealand and parts of Australia. They cite decriminalization as an advantage over legalization because removing prostitution from the criminal code avoids both the problems of graft and abuse associated with police jurisdiction over prostitution and the sometimes overbearing regulations that accompany legalization. (For example, in Nevada’s brothels, brothel-owners decide whether licensed prostitutes are allowed to leave the brothel during their off hours. Prostitutes can be required to stay on the premises for weeks at a time, no matter their working hours.) Decriminalization would better protect people in the sex industry from violence and abuse."
It's pretty much my point of view as well.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:08 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,191,700 times
Reputation: 13392
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishViking View Post
My point is you wouldn't know if he was, and if he is or isn't is irrelevant in itself, there are about 3.4 billion other men, plenty of which have or will either cheat or buy prostitute or both.
I don't care what those 3.4 billion other men are up to. And the reality is that I would know. Folk usually know. Despite what some might say, I don't buy into the idea of folk in solid marriages living double lives. That's for TV. Also, keep in mind that you might have difficulty gauging folk due to your own challenges, but it's incorrect to apply that challenge to others.

In the day-to-day of sharing life with another person, folk know what their marriage is comprised of, the dreams and fears of their spouses, and when something has gone awry. Life with another person can become as intimate as you are with yourself, and it's only something you'll be able to glean via experience. Nobody is that good of a con to pass as a good human when really being evil underneath. Unless we're dealing with stupidity, which I'll get to later. I've had bf's that have cheated in the past. I know what that looks like. I know the personality characteristics that make up an individual that would knowingly put their partner's life at risk. And that's what folk do when they cheat, especially with a prostitute.

For folk that do not know, or at least are not intelligent enough to know and/or consider the consequences of their actions, are just examples of attributes to put under consideration. My dh is intelligent. We have an intelligent marriage. We've both elected to leave stupid to the stupid.

Quote:
You made a point of them being dirty, my counterpoint is that you are using an irrelevant point about something that exists plenty elsewhere. The need of a shower is hardly a rare ocasion for most of us. As for "bugs" there are plenty of non-genital diseases that pose bigger problems.
Again, irrelevant. Clearly, nobody gives a crap about being dirty while roughing it in the woods. Their need to shower goes deeper than dirt picked up from camping. And it makes no difference what bigger problems there may be compared to sex bugs. In this conversation it's a matter of context, not some willy nilly catch all umbrella.

Quote:
Most people have problems, and people at the lower end of society usually have bigger problems.
Yea, clearly that's the case.

Quote:
The thing is you are looking it this from a standpoint where prostitution have probably been illegal for a long time(Or are those laws new in the US?), whilst I'm looking at it from a perspective where it was legal just a couple of years ago(in sweden).
it's actually still legal to sell sex here, but not to buy it, which practically means it goes underground anyways.
And the only thing we can see here is that the problems surrounding it have tenfolded since it became illigal.

Btw quoted from one of YOUR sources;

It's pretty much my point of view as well.
It makes no difference to the point, which is the fact that human trafficking is a greater issue in countries with legalized prostitution. Since you cannot globally mandate legalized prostitution to all nations, it will remain the case. This does go back to what I said earlier, that it always goes sick when it comes to humans. I have no issue with prostitution at it's core (giving human contact to a lonely individual for compensation). I've traveled in some risque circles in my life, so I'm no prude, but the reality is that there will always be a subset of folk that will harm, that will be thoughtless and cruel, and they're found in greater numbers surrounding prostitutes. As long as it's not in my back yard, as heartless as that may sound, I won't take a stance on the issue. I will be honest about it, tho.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:48 AM
 
4,135 posts, read 9,115,274 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by tag08 View Post
Prostitution has long been known by many as the "victimless" crime. While it's true that neither the prostitute or the "John" is considered a victim, the sale of sex is still illegal. Why do you think that is? What do you think of prostitution?
Other than immoral, it should be illegal simply for the spread of disease. What "john"'s wife / or / prostitute's husband ( or any consenting partner of either) would want some STD disease brought home? Yuk. The partner of the person engaging in the illegal prostitution ( the person at home) is the victim of the crime.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:50 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,586,827 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant View Post
Other than immoral, it should be illegal simply for the spread of disease. What "john"'s wife / or / prostitute's husband ( or any consenting partner of either) would want some STD disease brought home? Yuk. The partner of the person engaging in the illegal prostitution ( the person at home) is the victim of the crime.
Good morning,

Using that logic, all cheating and adultery should be illegal too. The only difference between a prostitute and a mistress is the direct payment of funds for each "session", but I'm sure many mistresses get compensated.

This is simply not a good enough argument for controlling people's right to do what they want with their bodies and funds.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:52 PM
 
4,135 posts, read 9,115,274 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post
Good morning,

Using that logic, all cheating and adultery should be illegal too. The only difference between a prostitute and a mistress is the direct payment of funds for each "session", but I'm sure many mistresses get compensated.

This is simply not a good enough argument for controlling people's right to do what they want with their bodies and funds.
Adultery is illegal.[ it is nothing but getting caught cheating. ] It is also illegal to spend a spouse's money on an adulterous relationship in NY. My cousin got a divorce based on someone doing that to her.
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Central, IL
3,408 posts, read 3,459,421 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant View Post
Adultery is illegal.[ it is nothing but getting caught cheating. ] It is also illegal to spend a spouse's money on an adulterous relationship in NY. My cousin got a divorce based on someone doing that to her.
It is only illegal in some states, most states it is not illegal, but is grounds for a divorce and can also be grounds for a civil lawsuit. Take NY for example, yes it is still technically illegal because the law has not been removed from the books. The law in New York was enacted in 1907. Since the 1970's only 12 people have been charged with it, and only one was actually convicted.
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