Prostitution! How bad is it really? (statistics, solution, violent crime, party)

[sterlinggirl]

now lets get to the many problems in your arguement.

what married women have done? excuse me if a women wants to get married and chooses to have sex, thats not the same as prostitution. theres a big mental difference, whether we realize it or not, when we have sex out of our choice, or when theres another factor that forces us to because of desperate times.

How many women have married for money? Likewise, how many women have stayed in a loveless marriage with a man who is a 'good provider' for their financial security or that of their children?

How many women have divorced their husband after they lost their good job?

People prostitute themselves all the time, and I would hazard a guess that the majority of women having sex for money are either trying to land their prince or have already married him. Why don't little girls dream of marrying the pauper?

In a typical marriage, the man is rewarded with regular sex, and the woman is rewarded with security for herself and her children. They both get what they need.

As I see it, the primary difference between prostitution and marriage lies in that marriage is a long term arrangement sanctified by the church and state, while prostitution is a short term contract typically forbidden by the church and state.

[leangk]

Originally Posted by SuSuSushi

All your talk about objectification and being treated as an object is laughable. Frankly, who is objectifying whom here? Is it the man who comes and pays hundreds of dollars for no-strings-attached sex that is objectifying the woman? Or is it the woman who is getting the financial benefit of the deal who is objectifying the man?

Honestly though, does it really matter? The man is paying for something he wants, and the woman is willing to provide it for a price. It's simply a commodity like anything else. As long as both parties are adult and willing, there's no issue with it no matter how much you think it's "disgusting".

the arguemtn of "who is objectifying who" is one as old as time used by hookers (and strippers although that is completely different) to justify thier terrible situation. when you have the impression your the one "using" not the one being used you are all of asudden able to live with what youve done (no matter how horrible). this sort of aregument has similar physocologic effects to the famous "i had to do it", "it was for the best", "everybody does it" and so on.

Sushi, i was pretty sure cable jockey's explanation on the exhange of money for a commodaty was sufficent enough to answer the thing you think is so "laughable". let me explain something. we work, and this work has a price. it has a certian "buying power" over certain goods and services, and the way we barter is through cash. the difference with prostitution is the women is the "goods". and is therefore being "objectified! dont deny it, its a fact.

the issue of "discusting" doesnt come from the fact two people are exchanging "goods". it comes form the unfortunate fact that that person, day after day, has to sleep with a number of men for money. although sex is "physical" a certain emotional and mental attachment forms also. the lack of real emotional attachment, many sexual partners who dont show any real affection and so on is bad. its troubling for the person do mentally, although they may not realize it.

the fact is sushi, almost all people (whether they agree to legalize it or like me find ways to lower it) here find it discusting. the fact that you dont is actually kinda sad. anyone whos had sex knows its destructive power. anyone who knows someone who has became a "ho" and objectified thier body know the lack of self confidence and lack of sex respect you have.

I do not argue form a religious standpoint, or as a "moral authorrity". i simply argue from what Ive seen and expirienced, and I know the terrible toll this cna take on women.

if its just a "business transaction" as you so coldly, and emotionlessy similarily to how the women who do this themselves would (because frankly they do die alittle inside each time), would you do it? would you support your children or mother? or family doing it? if its "just a job" who cares huh? it pays well and you seem to think it has no negative reprocussions so why not?

SO i rest my case. you wouldnt, and i dont think anyone here would allow that either.

the can try to make it sounds better by using euphemism to suppress it. much like the nazis called jews subhuman to make killing them easier, people like you dismiss all shreds of evidence that point to the negative damage it causes, by calling it a "business transaction". (not saying your a nazi, its just the easiest comaprison i could think of)

it really is unfortunate to see people like that in this world...

[Rathagos]

Leangk,

Maybe I'm wrong because I have come so late into this topic, but it sounds like you are making the women involved in prostitution out to be a victim? Is this the case? You are saying that a woman who is selling her body for a price is disgusting?

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by leangk

the fact is sushi, almost all people (whether they agree to legalize it or like me find ways to lower it) here find it discusting. the fact that you dont is actually kinda sad. anyone whos had sex knows its destructive power. anyone who knows someone who has became a "ho" and objectified thier body know the lack of self confidence and lack of sex respect you have.

I have to give you another side of the coin here - and, its from knowing several young woman who were "working girls" -

A couple of these woman worked as Prostitutes to put themselves through college. The two I know eventually went to law school and are associated with me - and they are damn fine lawyers - well adjusted - now married with a couple of kids - and other than the long hours, they are typical "hockey" moms -

So, you gotta give a little slack here - not all of the young women you talk about end up the way you think -

Same with woman who work as Strippers: MANY work to get money for school - and, it IS a job.

[Haaziq]

Originally Posted by cablejockey

I dont think the women are showing their real feelings about it, and do suffer psychological damage.

Care to back that statement up?

[Rathagos]

Okay... there's an accident. A man and his son are injured in the accident. Two ambulances from two different hospitals show up. One takes the father to one hospital, the second takes the son to a second hospital. After a time, the doctor walks in and takes one look at the boy. The doctor then responds: "I can't treat this boy... he's my son!!" How is this possible?


Right... it's the boy's mother. But most people associate a doctor with being male. I see the same thing transpiring in this thread. We are addressing all prostitutes as women. Although, without any empirical data to back this up, I believe most prostitutes are women, there are still plenty of men out there, servicing both women and men. So, to make this thread about the "victimized woman!!!" let's put it into context and expand beyond the mentality of the bra-burning 60's. Okay?

[leangk]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

Leangk,

Maybe I'm wrong because I have come so late into this topic, but it sounds like you are making the women involved in prostitution out to be a victim? Is this the case? You are saying that a woman who is selling her body for a price is disgusting?

A victim is a "[SIZE=-1] person against whom a crime has been committe", and since these women choose to do it of thier own will (although you could i guess argue they are foced into it by thier economic situation and therefore a victim of society)[/SIZE].

but that aside, they are not the victim. they have a real choice (unlike sex slaves) to sell or not sell thier body. but as to my comment involving "discusting", i think the idea of a child being sexually abused is "discusting". the child itself is blameless (althugh not in the prostitutes case) but the what happened to them is still discusting.

what is happening to this women and the fact that economic harship is forcing them to sell thier bodies is "discusting". the idea that a normal job to support yourself and children cant be found, and you therefore must objectify yourself in the worste was truly is a sad, unfortunate, discusting truth.

the women themselves arent so much discusting (unless of course you think the idea of hundreds or thousands of sex partners is gross, i personally do, but then again id never "buy" a "town bycicle")

the discusting (sad) thing really is that these women think (maybe rightfully so) that the only way to gain some worth is by turning themselves into a human product. they are obviously people too, who need to be loved and taught with respect. and prostitution and porn as you know dont have a good reputation with that. In porn, derogatory terms and language is so bad that the women become almost "sub-human". as "piece of meat" if you will. a women is no longer reffered to as "a women" but rather her sexual part. These are all the steps used to dehumaize, desensitize and overall devalue what a human really is.

I know some of you are not sympathetic to my outlook, namely Sushi, who's comments often go beyond cold and "inhuman". i just think we need to understand that no sort of "labelling" of humans as "goods and products" is good. as i already said it makes them sub-human.

Originally Posted by Greatday

I have to give you another side of the coin here - and, its from knowing several young woman who were "working girls" -

A couple of these woman worked as Prostitutes to put themselves through college. The two I know eventually went to law school and are associated with me - and they are damn fine lawyers - well adjusted - now married with a couple of kids - and other than the long hours, they are typical "hockey" moms -

So, you gotta give a little slack here - not all of the young women you talk about end up the way you think -

Same with woman who work as Strippers: MANY work to get money for school - and, it IS a job.

i agree i need to give some slack, to be hoenst the idea that these women are normal memebers of society is actually quite shocking to me. i guess i shouldnt be so suprised though.

just on the side, i cant believe men would actually marry them, no matter how nice someone is, anyone who puts such a low amount of importance on sex like that to me is not worth it. but im probably wrong here too.

im just going to put this out there. i dont know how these women could actually look in their husbands and childrens eyes. i dont understand how they could still have dignity, respect and a sense of self worth after treating themselves so badly. i think the most important thing we give to other humans is respect, something after that these women could never have. i know they can justify it any way they want like "hey i got through college debt free!", but is it really worth the price????

maybe im looking to deep into this and maybe none of the women suffer form what im talking about. but i have reason to believe they do.

[leangk]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

I see the same thing transpiring in this thread. We are addressing all prostitutes as women. Although, without any empirical data to back this up, I believe most prostitutes are women, there are still plenty of men out there, servicing both women and men. So, to make this thread about the "victimized woman!!!" let's put it into context and expand beyond the mentality of the bra-burning 60's. Okay?

once you read my post i think youll see how im not victimizing women, but rather saying the thing itself is bad. if you look at my other posts youll see im in no way an advocate for the "poor women" syndrome

i know what you mean though Rathagos, these threads often start off "oh thats terrible", then "poor women", then "discusting pigs, all men should die".

dont think for one second im a feminist sympathizer, far from it. i see the injustices against men as well as anyone else (ive expirienced it first hand with my mom and dad). ive seen the media demonize men constantly while playing the "women can do no wrong" card.

rather than "vicimized women", i am trying concentrate on the 'mental damage and negative implications on the dehuminaization of people in this lucrative "business""

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by leangk

just on the side, i cant believe men would actually marry them, no matter how nice someone is, anyone who puts such a low amount of importance on sex like that to me is not worth it. but im probably wrong here too.

Ah... marrying them is something different. I was just talking to my wife about this last night. Now, I want to preface this by saying the women I am going to be talking about are well-educated, refined women who are normally categorized as "escorts" which is just a fancy name for a high-priced prostitute. But, they provide more than sex. Many times they are just used as social dates with no sex involved, but require payment for their time, nonetheless.

My concern on their having a "normal", healthy relationship is that they haven't had to face the adversity normally found in a relationship. They can pick and choose their clientele (for the most part), and if they are in a mood for fun, they can pick "John" because he's funny, or "Steve" because he's intelligent, or "Mark" because he's wordly, or "Jeff" because he's a great lover, etc. But, as most of us in a relationship realize, one person can't be everything we want all the time. There will be times my wife is trying to be funny, when I want intelligent conversation, or run my trying to be funny because she's serious about a conversation.

I'm afraid that since the "escort" girl can pick and choose her clients based upon her moods, she had never had to really face the person who's not what she wants all the time. She may get a funny, intelligent guy, but who is only "okay" in bed. Or the great lover, who's funny, but can't hold an intelligent conversation. I would imagine never having to have learned to look past these and stick with one person, she (or he?) would have a hard time settling down to one person.

Make sense?

[SuSuSushi]

Originally Posted by leangk

the arguemtn of "who is objectifying who" is one as old as time used by hookers (and strippers although that is completely different) to justify thier terrible situation. when you have the impression your the one "using" not the one being used you are all of asudden able to live with what youve done (no matter how horrible). this sort of aregument has similar physocologic effects to the famous "i had to do it", "it was for the best", "everybody does it" and so on.

Sushi, i was pretty sure cable jockey's explanation on the exhange of money for a commodaty was sufficent enough to answer the thing you think is so "laughable". let me explain something. we work, and this work has a price. it has a certian "buying power" over certain goods and services, and the way we barter is through cash. the difference with prostitution is the women is the "goods". and is therefore being "objectified! dont deny it, its a fact.

the issue of "discusting" doesnt come from the fact two people are exchanging "goods". it comes form the unfortunate fact that that person, day after day, has to sleep with a number of men for money. although sex is "physical" a certain emotional and mental attachment forms also. the lack of real emotional attachment, many sexual partners who dont show any real affection and so on is bad. its troubling for the person do mentally, although they may not realize it.

the fact is sushi, almost all people (whether they agree to legalize it or like me find ways to lower it) here find it discusting. the fact that you dont is actually kinda sad. anyone whos had sex knows its destructive power. anyone who knows someone who has became a "ho" and objectified thier body know the lack of self confidence and lack of sex respect you have.

I do not argue form a religious standpoint, or as a "moral authorrity". i simply argue from what Ive seen and expirienced, and I know the terrible toll this cna take on women.

if its just a "business transaction" as you so coldly, and emotionlessy similarily to how the women who do this themselves would (because frankly they do die alittle inside each time), would you do it? would you support your children or mother? or family doing it? if its "just a job" who cares huh? it pays well and you seem to think it has no negative reprocussions so why not?

SO i rest my case. you wouldnt, and i dont think anyone here would allow that either.

the can try to make it sounds better by using euphemism to suppress it. much like the nazis called jews subhuman to make killing them easier, people like you dismiss all shreds of evidence that point to the negative damage it causes, by calling it a "business transaction". (not saying your a nazi, its just the easiest comaprison i could think of)

it really is unfortunate to see people like that in this world...

I don't agree. I think there is nothing wrong with legalized and regulated prostitution. You are looking at the whole thing from an emotional standpoint rather than as a business transaction, and that's why you have a problem with it. You are assuming that every woman is going to react like the amorphous, nameless poor women that you say you've witnessed being "devastated" by sex. Sweeping generalizations are usually incorrect, and this is no different. If you're so concerned about the whole matter, why aren't you also talking about how the men using the prostitutes are going to be "devastated" and demoralized by it, hmmm?? Or is that just your double standard showing its masculine head?

P.S. Please run your posts through a spell checker. It's difficult enough to wade through them as they are.