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Old 09-20-2008, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,357,433 times
Reputation: 4893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Looks good..but.. I have a couple of questions.
How is this school funded if not by tuition?
If we switched to this kind of system.. what would happen to the students that don't get "picked" from the lottery?
Where there is money to be had and paid..there is corruption and the strong ability to corrupt.
Private donations - individuals and companies provide the funding -

The kids are on scholarships
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,959 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Nonsense. Drug problems, teen pregnancies, shootings and gangs are societal problems unrelated to schools. Abolish public schools and the situation will get worse.
I agree. I know a number of people who pulled their kids out of the public schools b/c they were getting in some sort of trouble. At their new private (usually religious) schools, these kids found friends just like their old friends to hang out with, and continued to get in trouble. Or, it wasn't the friends at all, but the kids themselves, getting speeding tickets for driving 100 MPH on city streets, etc, which they continued to do while at their new schools, until they lost their licenses. It's easy to blame the schools.
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Private donations - individuals and companies provide the funding -

The kids are on scholarships

Hi,

got that..

but you didn't answer my other questions.

This particular school looks to have been specifically created for underprivledged students and given on a "lottery" basis..

But then someone getting this excellent opportunity first starts with luck. What about those that do not meet the luck of the draw.

Also.. if done on a larger scale throughout the rest of the country and we used a "lottery" to determine who gets into what school.. how do you stop a parent with a sizeable bank account and ability to "charitably donate" from using such tactics to get their child.. or buy their child a spot in the "lottery".

See.. whenyou talk about vouchers and lotteries and scholarships and all that.. I see the huge potential for this when opened up to everyone..

Money corrupts.. and school for profit would quickly become corrupt.. etc
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,357,433 times
Reputation: 4893
Private, non religious schools, are popping up all over around here.

Increasing numbers of home schooling / schoolers also
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Private, non religious schools, are popping up all over around here.

Increasing numbers of home schooling / schoolers also
I'm not debating that fact, I don't think anyone else is here either. So parents ARE making different choices to send their kids to either a charter, private or to home school....

Here where I'm from private schools are finding it hard to sustain and get the enrollment to keep themselves open because, with the acception of a few SD in economically disadvantage neighborhoods, Public schools are excellent here.
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:56 PM
Status: "Done with the 100s (hopefully)?" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
5,411 posts, read 8,293,761 times
Reputation: 5760
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
You still haven't addressed the issue of the additional $10450 (for a $15K year tuition to a private school) that I would need to come up with to educate my child under a "privatized system".. so now with my $1,000 tax credit I guess that leaves me $9,450. And then let's not forget the additional cost of school supplies that parents much purchase to send their kids to school with.
Well, sorry to say this, but that additional money you would need for sending your child to a private school really isn't my problem. As a parent, you not only can receive the tax credit, but there are all kinds of programs (government & private) which can assist with needed expenses should you be faced with a financial situation. My sister needed glasses when she was young, and my parents went through the Lion's Club (a private charitable organization) for assistance. I have been involved in some of the charitable programs that my company sponsors throughout the year, some of which help needy children. There are a plethora of charities that can help without having to reply on taxpayers.

I don't mean to sound heartless, but you parents really need to think about how much your dependence on the public system is hurting taxpayers ... especially those of us without kids. My property tax bill is roughly $1,600 every year, and over $1,100 of that is paid to public schools. I sure could use some of that money for my own expenses. I have a dog (who I consider my dependent). Should I expect the government to pay for health care or obedience school for my dog??? Of course not. I don't believe in depending on the government for things I should be able to do myself. I'm sure as hell not going to expect a handout or a bailout if I should fall onto hard times. It's everybody for him/herself.
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Well, sorry to say this, but that additional money you would need for sending your child to a private school really isn't my problem. As a parent, you not only can receive the tax credit, but there are all kinds of programs (government & private) which can assist with needed expenses should you be faced with a financial situation. My sister needed glasses when she was young, and my parents went through the Lion's Club (a private charitable organization) for assistance. I have been involved in some of the charitable programs that my company sponsors throughout the year, some of which help needy children. There are a plethora of charities that can help without having to reply on taxpayers.

I don't mean to sound heartless, but you parents really need to think about how much your dependence on the public system is hurting taxpayers ... especially those of us without kids. My property tax bill is roughly $1,600 every year, and over $1,100 of that is paid to public schools. I sure could use some of that money for my own expenses. I have a dog (who I consider my dependent). Should I expect the government to pay for health care or obedience school for my dog??? Of course not. I don't believe in depending on the government for things I should be able to do myself. I'm sure as hell not going to expect a handout or a bailout if I should fall onto hard times. It's everybody for him/herself.
So you want the nation of middle class hard working people to rely on the charity of others.. yet those that have complain about the taxes they pay to fund public works for the betterment of society and our nation as a whole? Am I really to believe that you, who are complaining about $1100 in taxes to fund a public school (which, btw is relatively cheap) are suddenlty going to be charitable and give to help others?

What you also fail to realize is that all these "government programs" do NOTHING to help the middle class. We make too much money for any of them. Take college education, for example. An inner city child and one of minority race can get a fully funded college education from good old Uncle Sam (and I'm not opposed to that, btw). A middle class familly can not because they make too much money.. yet ironically not enough money to pay for college education wtihout taking out second mortgages and student loans? The middle class is the largest class of people in this country..imagine how many under and uneducated people you will have when you take education out from underneath them. Who will work for the rich.. because they certainly won't hire anyone without an education.

Sorry.. you can't compare child to a dog. First off.. the cost of owning a dog is nothing in comparison to the cost of raising a child. Secondy a dog doesn't contribute anything to society beyond what it contributes to it's owner. A human child contributes to society in some way.. you were someone's child and you contribute to society on a daily basis just by getting out of bed, going to your job or buying your cup of cofffee. I can respect the fact that you have and love your dog.. I have one too..but again.. the comparison makes no sense.

You may want to go and re-read the criteria for these forums. You have yet to site any significant data or information beyond your anger of having to pay your property taxes, etc. I've sited facts about how private and public education are of equal quality..etc.

Do you not see the benefit to you in having an nation full of educated children?

Last edited by TristansMommy; 09-20-2008 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:57 PM
 
2,653 posts, read 4,595,132 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post

Money corrupts.. and school for profit would quickly become corrupt.. etc
What makes you think public schools are not corrupt?

Public school districts are rife with cronyism, self dealing, petty internal politics and corruption. At least with a voucher, a family has the resources to escape and hold the school accountable. The way things are now if you find yourself in a bad spot you have to suck it up or leave & fork out thousands of dollars (if you can) to get your kid a decent education.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
What makes you think public schools are not corrupt?

Public school districts are rife with cronyism, self dealing, petty internal politics and corruption. At least with a voucher, a family has the resources to escape and hold the school accountable. The way things are now if you find yourself in a bad spot you have to suck it up or leave & fork out thousands of dollars (if you can) to get your kid a decent education.
I won't pretend that corruption doesnt' exist. Most of it is in the politics of the school board and neppitism etc. Those need to be reigned in. It's the same problem we see on every level of governement as well.. however we do have the power, as a population, to change that ..with our vote and with our voices.

I was more refering to corruption in the sense of a "lottery" or voucher program. If all parents , for example , wantto send their kid to school A because it is the "best" how do you determine who goes to school A when there are only so many slots you can fill.. Is it determined by how close you live to the school, is it determined by wether you can afford tuition.. or is it determined by a lottery.

If a school is funded by "charitable" donations.. then of course those families giving charitable donations are going to have first preference. Lottery systems can be bought..

With a lottery you'd have an education system by "luck" rather than by anything else..

And of course by how big your wallet is. The parent that can afford to pay their way into the best school will get into the best school.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
BTW.. the idea of public funding for education of all children of the nation was first proposed by one of our founding fathers.. Thomas Jefferson in 1779.
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