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Old 09-29-2008, 10:58 PM
 
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This thread is not turning out to be of any "higher standards" than the one over in the 08PE forum that's been going for a few days too. Let's take any further comments over there, please. Thanks.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/2008-...privilege.html
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:21 PM
 
Location: At my computador
2,057 posts, read 2,229,361 times
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Default White Privilege. Why does it matter?

This is Your Nation on White Privilege (Updated) | Red Room

Whites and blacks are treated differently when they're amongst members of their own race and the members of the opposite.

Should that matter? If so, why?

By the way, if you haven't read the guidelines of the forum, don't post.

Last edited by scirocco22; 10-01-2008 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:06 AM
 
5,601 posts, read 12,690,639 times
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Mod interpose: ok folks, let's try this again ...this thread was closed for awhile because of posts that did not meet the guidelines of the Great Debates Forum. We will now open it back up pending the thread having a good debate. If this thread is to survive, it HAS to be a cut above the discussion taking place in the 08PE forum. Thanks for you cooperation.

Again, as One Thousand has stated, the premise of this debate is "Whites and blacks are treated differently when they're amongst members of their own race and the members of the opposite." He is inviting you to argue for or against if that should matter. Post your reasons why it should or shouldn't matter.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:36 AM
 
441 posts, read 750,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Thousand View Post
What is your thesis and argument?

Sorry for so long for my reply.

My argument is that I think it does exist, but I also add that most of us here in America look through the world with color lenses that we don't want to take off because were AFRAID. Some are born with a life better than others, So if you are a person of color in this country you are given the benefit of doubt more than others. Examples can be seen in the OJ trial, Micheal Vick, and the harsh criticism of Obama. But I actually don't blame people for not being able to take off there goggles. I blame the system for putting them in that condition. A long time ago white people were slaves, and the divide and conquor method was used to seperate the slaves and make the "white slaves" feel better about themselvs when compared to black slaves. It was easy to identify who would be a slave off the basis of color and that was the beginning of racisim and "white privilage". Fast foward a few hundred years, and it has morphed into what we have today.
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,289 posts, read 3,746,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Thousand View Post
What is your thesis and argument?
I know you didn't ask this of me, however, I'd appreciate the opportunity to respond to your question.

As a 44-year-old African American man, I would posit that white privilege exists, abeit on a continuum.

From our nation's inception, through the birth of my generation, through today, white privilege exists in many subtle (and arguably, not-so-subtle) forms. Although very subjective, white privilege is best exemplified by the ability to be an unwitting beneficiary of it. There are, however, "objectively" identifiable examples of it. And if we're honest, we'll acknowledge the existence of it. Not for the sake of being "guilty", but for the purpose of acknowledging that in our society, we still have some work to do.

Whether it's government or corporate leadership, or sports and entertainment, there are areas where white privilege exists. It's not always hateful or malicious, but it exists. And many of those who benefit from it are loathe to relinquish it.

History. Wealth. Justice. Economics. Education. Housing. Society. All areas in which whites have enjoyed privilege. My greatest concern, however, is the unearned benefit of the doubt and moral authority that goes along with white privilege.
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:24 PM
 
878 posts, read 1,321,182 times
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As before, I reject the premise underlying the question.

White privilege does not pervade our society as the author suggests, everyone is free to succeed or fail solely on their own merits. For every rich white CEO that you can point to, I can point to 100 poor white citizens living well below the poverty line. The idea that people succeed because they are white, or don't succeed because they are black, is absurd.

In today's capitalist society, race is irrelevant, success is key. A white person who cannot perform his job will be fired, and a black person who can perform the job will be hired.

If you want to discuss the issues raised by the article, the Democrat party has made a habit of rewarding those who fail to make good decisions in life - having kids out of marriage, not getting a job, commiting crimes - and punishing those who are successful - usually through higher taxes.

To argue that Sarah Palin is getting a pass on her family history is shockingly ignorant of the press coverage since she has been nominated. What the author of the piece should be more concerned about is the fact that Barack Obama's political history has not been questioned. There has been little substantive discussion of his qualifications for office, despite over a year in the "public spotlight."

Privilege? How about black privilege, where a man who regularly associates with terrorists, racists, and criminals is given a pass on these associations while seeking a position as the most powerful person in the world? How about the media which praises Obama's "community organizer" position, while ignoring the fact that the community he organized for fell into squalor on his watch? How about the fact that a man can vote against a bill requiring hospitals to care for infants who survive abortions, yet still claim he represents the interests of mainstream America?

Where's the privilege argument against Barack Obama?
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: vagabond
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are we making distinctions between the difference between racial privilege and socioeconomic privilege? i have seen both, and the line between them is often blurred into confusion because of a lack of understanding of the two.

i myself do not understand all of the factors, and i certainly am not going to say that every race is equally privileged in modern society, because to do so would be to basically proclaim society as perfect, which makes about as much sense as proclaiming w as an eloquent orator.

but i also recognize that much of what we (or some anyway) call white privilege, or racial privilege, or racial has not so much to do with race as it does social and economic situation.

that's my feeling anyway.

aaron out.
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:40 PM
 
Location: At my computador
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Disclaimer: I am referring to white privilege only in private affairs; not privilege committed by the government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H81 View Post
Sorry for so long for my reply.
Thank you for a thoughtful reply.

Quote:
My argument is that I think it does exist, but I also add that most of us here in America look through the world with color lenses that we don't want to take off because were AFRAID.
I'm not arguing that. (However, I would argue the tendency to impose values contrary to our instinct-- fear-- is self-destructive... but, let's open another thread after this one's resolved. Suffice to say, for now, you appear to support making a conscious effort to change in a direction you believe the world should be without regard to how you currently experience the world?)

Quote:
Some are born with a life better than others, So if you are a person of color in this country you are given the benefit of doubt more than others.
Would you separate these two statements? They, I believe, are two different ideas that require different responses. However, I don't want to split them because you may be saying something I don't understand.

Quote:
Examples can be seen in the OJ trial, Micheal Vick, and the harsh criticism of Obama.
I wouldn't use those examples. Two are a couple of the worst animals in America that most of us think should be killed for what they've done and the third is a politician. (In politics everything and the kitchen sink is thrown... Remember, McCain had a black baby from an affair and Kerry's record was dishonorably attacked.)

Quote:
But I actually don't blame people for not being able to take off there goggles. I blame the system for putting them in that condition. A long time ago white people were slaves, and the divide and conquor method was used to seperate the slaves and make the "white slaves" feel better about themselvs when compared to black slaves. It was easy to identify who would be a slave off the basis of color and that was the beginning of racisim and "white privilage". Fast foward a few hundred years, and it has morphed into what we have today.
I consider most of this false. However, this isn't the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backfist View Post
Although very subjective, white privilege is best exemplified by the ability to be an unwitting beneficiary of it.
What's wrong with being a beneficiary of it?

Quote:
My greatest concern, however, is the unearned benefit of the doubt and moral authority that goes along with white privilege.
If it was the values of white people that the country was built on, why is it irrational to assume a greater likelihood that white people would have superior values? (Superior defined, loosely, as those required for self-governance and economic success.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
Where's the privilege argument against Barack Obama?
I believe, in the thread linked above, I was asked the question: If Hillary had won the primary, she would have given a speech that included what a great day it was for women. Why didn't BO talk about what a great day for black people it was?

It's a great point and does a great job of exposing racism.
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,289 posts, read 3,746,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
As before, I reject the premise underlying the question.

White privilege does not pervade our society
And perhaps you'd expect that this is all that needs to be said on the subject ... but that's not your, ahem, privilege.

Moreover, the examples of white privilege need not--and should not--be limited to the simplified world of Democrat vs. Republican. White privilege can be readily identified in, say, the way our society concerns itself with lovely and attractive young white women who turn up missing, while paying next to no attention to non-white women who go missing under the same or similar circumstances.

How does privilege factor into that disperate treatment? There's an expectation that society will be concerned about the well-being of a Polly Klaas, Chandra Levi, Laci Peterson or Natallee Holloway. Yet there's little or no expectation that we'll be concerned about a Ramona Moore, Tamika Huston or Evelyn Hernandez. This is just an example of current white privilege.

Is it really necessary chronicle this thing over the centuries? Or can intellectually honest people discuss the better ways to end it?
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:32 PM
 
878 posts, read 1,321,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backfist View Post
Is it really necessary chronicle this thing over the centuries? Or can intellectually honest people discuss the better ways to end it?
Far smarter men than you and I have discussed racial discrimination at length. I find it unlikely we will tread any new ground.

If you insist that white privilege has existed despite decades of the government passing laws which prefer one race over another and reward those who take advantage of the perceived racism, then isn't there something to be said about the effectiveness of government intervention in the racial debate?

I'm saying that if a man has a good education, a conservative appearance and mannerisms, and confidently expresses themselves, then the world is his oyster, regardless of race.

Then again, if he doesn't graduate high school, dresses in rags, swears every fourth word, and always portrays himself as a victim, he will never be successful in life, again regardless of race.

Economics play more of a role in these factors than race ever could.
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