U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-22-2008, 04:54 PM
 
268 posts, read 942,307 times
Reputation: 196

Advertisements

The recent proposed bail-out got me wondering . . .

So many of our institutions are already socialist in nature and are controlled by the government: the police, gradeschools and high schools, exports of "sensitive" products, social security, some medical insurance, and now, if this bail-out pushes through and with the Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac take-over, a huge percentage of the lending business.

So the question is two-fold:

Is the United States in fact moving toward becoming a socialist nation (along the lines of France, England, and Germany)?

And if it is, is that a bad thing?

Discuss please.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-22-2008, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,560,289 times
Reputation: 1023
You need to refresh your understanding of the word 'socialist.' Having a publicly funded police force is not an attribute of a 'socialist' nation!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2008, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,084,126 times
Reputation: 948
what's wrong with "socialism" in these areas?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2008, 07:25 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,734,523 times
Reputation: 4000
Only self-proclaimed rugged individualists and sovereign citizen types fear socialism. The rest of us seem to think that cooperating on stuff is probably a good idea in a lot of situations...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2008, 08:26 PM
 
268 posts, read 942,307 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
You need to refresh your understanding of the word 'socialist.' Having a publicly funded police force is not an attribute of a 'socialist' nation!
I understand that socialism is primarily an economic policy in which the general populace controls the means of production and its distribution - but, I also understand that a socialist government is one in which the socialist ideals of common control is put into practice through the government acting on behalf of its people . . . I did say in the model of the UK, France and Germany. In that sense having the government control such goods or services as the police - and what is commonly being argued in today's political campaign - universal health care, is viewed as socialist in structure.

So the question still is - Is this something we should be concerned with or is this a good thing?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2008, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwynn View Post
The recent proposed bail-out got me wondering . . .

So many of our institutions are already socialist in nature and are controlled by the government: the police, gradeschools and high schools, exports of "sensitive" products, social security, some medical insurance, and now, if this bail-out pushes through and with the Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac take-over, a huge percentage of the lending business.

So the question is two-fold:

Is the United States in fact moving toward becoming a socialist nation (along the lines of France, England, and Germany)?

And if it is, is that a bad thing?

Discuss please.
Life is about balance.. balance is key in ANYTHING in life.. including governement.

If you have government that is purely capatalistic then you have problems.. capatilism in it's extremes is just as dangerous as fascism as an extreme. Socialism, when taken to the extreme is also dangerous.

However, we also know that things needto be done for society to function and achieve for the greater good.

Take public education for example. Thomas Jefferson first introduced the idea of publicaly funded education in 1779 because he realized that all resources were needed to educate the countries children and because of the opportunity for all, regardless of socio economic status, to get an education we are one of the most, if not the most, powerful country in the world and one of the leaders in innovation.

I believe that the way our government is set up is designed in such a way as to keep everything in balance without it ever going to one extreme or teh other.. which is the true genious of the founding fathers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2008, 11:32 AM
 
3,750 posts, read 10,201,548 times
Reputation: 6560
The countries that you site as examples of "socialist" countries are really what is termed "Social-Democracies". That is very different.

Social democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The wiki article is fairly comprehensive, talks about the fact that social democrats believe in democratic freedoms, but in some goverment intervention to try to achieve social justice (as defined by their constiuents) in terms of education, standards of living, etc..

From a personal standpoint, I am in favor of some social democratic principles (health care, education, defense, unemployment, time off for birth of a child, retirement/pensions) that in my opinion make the community/state a better place, even if those community programs mean that individually people may not be able to achieve as much as they would in a purely capitalistic society.

If you earned little money ($30K or less a year), and now were only going to earn $25 (due to taxes, etc..), but knew that you'd have a secure / dignified retirement, knew that if you lost your job you'd have a decent amount to live on while you found another, knew that your family had good health insurance, knew that your children's education were paid for...

Maybe that $5K penalty would be easier to swallow, because the security in social programs actually made your life better?

I know if I were making $150, and they told me i'd only be making $110 - because the rest was going to taxes, BUT, I'd have a guaranteed retirement - I'd be pretty happy. Right now I have NO retirement, so if I had to pay more in taxes, but was guaranteed good health insurance and a pension, I'd be a happy cat.

so my vote is - it could be a good thing, question as always - how is it adminstered? If the administration is corrupt, no amount of "good intentions" will save the programs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2008, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,560,289 times
Reputation: 1023
The right wing in America only talks about capitalism and socialism. Don't confuse the people with additional political categories. The right wing sets the agenda for all political discussion in America, remember.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top