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Old 09-25-2008, 05:28 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,007,297 times
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I have a question for the original poster - since you think it's a chosen lifestyle that you are taught, why would someone who is not surrounded by gays and lesbians at all growing up turn out to be gay or lesbian? And especially when there are consequences of being beaten, discriminated against, strained family relationships, and so many other reasons why one would actually rather NOT be gay. Many gay people go through hell coming to the realization that they are gay - I can't see how it's as simple as something they've chosen or are taught.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,195 posts, read 43,484,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
That is why I keep saying gay people are very difficult to get along with. Look at the rate 73 percent said they admitted to not being happy.
Most of the gay people I hang out with are pretty darned happy, including the two I live with... can't say the same for all of my straight friends, who seem much more stressed out overall.

Quote:
HIV is mostly contracted with same-sex sex too.
Uh, no. It's most easily contracted by male-male sex, but lesbians have almost a zero rate of contraction. And in recent years the gay population's numbers are going down (because of heightened awareness mostly), while the heterosexual numbers are going up - especially if you include non-American cases, where it's more prevalent in heteros. Give it a decade or two, and the statistics will shift, I promise. Of course I wish they'd disappear altogether, but that unfortunately doesn't seem to be happening yet.

Quote:
I wish gays would get it together and be more into relationships and into accepting themselves regardless of effeminate and masculine traits. The splitting of the two is pretty offensive. It is like the debate between the light skin black and the dark skin black, which one is better and which ones isn't? It just isn't right.
I agree, but every group of people will have their differences amongst each other... I am Jewish, and even we have that problem (Orthodox vs. Reform/Secular vs. Chabad etc.). 'Tis human nature, I suppose.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,195 posts, read 43,484,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
I find it a fascinating subject. That's why I popped into this thread.
I agree, however it's impossible to study accurately... you'd have to raise a child a certain way, then raise the SAME child another way, and so on. Would be interesting to see, but I doubt it'll happen anytime soon.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:45 PM
 
3,737 posts, read 5,102,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I agree, however it's impossible to study accurately... you'd have to raise a child a certain way, then raise the SAME child another way, and so on. Would be interesting to see, but I doubt it'll happen anytime soon.
I agree with you...it's a really interesting subject and I've wished many times that I could find all the answers, but I know that reading all the books on the subject and talking to as many people as possible isn't going to make the answer pop out. It's one of those things. We just believe what we believe based on our own feelings and what we've observed of the world around us.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,195 posts, read 43,484,362 times
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FYI... I just had to do some clean-up in this thread, so I'll remind you all to PLEASE read the guidelines for the forum. Keep it civil, everyone!
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:32 PM
 
25,165 posts, read 47,329,346 times
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Well you are very lucky that you know naturally masculine gay men.

What part of the nation are you from? It seems like where you are at there are tons of gay folks. If you are from west Hollywood then there will be a lot of gays there.

Where I am from it is a big deal to have a masculine image if not you get treated like crud, regarding some circles of gay men. One gay man told me that the gays he knows make an effort to look straight and masculine so they can be more accepted into society.

I don't make a conscious effort to be masculine or straight. I just do whatever I like whether it be regarded as effeminate or masculine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
please quantify by saying SOME gays adore the straight image. but that might also have to do with what circles you run in.

i know plenty of gays that are just guys. they are not trying to put on a show. they are just the way they are, based on life experiences. if they grew up with brothers. played sports. liked GI Joes. etc, that is who they are. all thats doesnt change because one is gay. that is still part of the person.
what i have seen more is that once newly admitted gays start hangin out with other gays, they kinda "gay it up". i saw this happen with a friend of mine. he was pretty normal. you could tell he was a lil festive before he came out, but once he started hangin out with the gays, he really let it out. it could have been repressed feelings or a fun experiment. but after a year or two, he went back to being himself.

in the end thats what matters. be yourself. otherwise its all an act, be it a straight acting or gay acting one.
the problem is that many people have a specific idea of what gay is. that is usually turned upside down by the guys i know. i know a lot of masculine gays.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:35 PM
 
25,165 posts, read 47,329,346 times
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Well you are from San Francisco there are much more gays there than where I live. I can only choose the ones that had to grow up with tyrant conservative Christian backgrounds and then they go and take out their bad childhoods on other gay folks that don't meet their super high standards...it really does stink for me; however, I've been lucky to have 2 gay friends in the past that were reliable and fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Most of the gay people I hang out with are pretty darned happy, including the two I live with... can't say the same for all of my straight friends, who seem much more stressed out overall.



Uh, no. It's most easily contracted by male-male sex, but lesbians have almost a zero rate of contraction. And in recent years the gay population's numbers are going down (because of heightened awareness mostly), while the heterosexual numbers are going up - especially if you include non-American cases, where it's more prevalent in heteros. Give it a decade or two, and the statistics will shift, I promise. Of course I wish they'd disappear altogether, but that unfortunately doesn't seem to be happening yet.



I agree, but every group of people will have their differences amongst each other... I am Jewish, and even we have that problem (Orthodox vs. Reform/Secular vs. Chabad etc.). 'Tis human nature, I suppose.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:49 PM
 
3,737 posts, read 5,102,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
Well you are from San Francisco there are much more gays there than where I live. I can only choose the ones that had to grow up with tyrant conservative Christian backgrounds and then they go and take out their bad childhoods on other gay folks that don't meet their super high standards...
I think just about every gay/bisexual/whatever person I've known down here grew up in a household that was oppressive to some extent...their identities were rejected by their very religious parents to some degree or another, but most of the ones I've known turned out fine in spite of that. Of course I've met some people who are going to have problems for the rest of their lives because of the traumatic events of childhood and teen years (and often they had additional problems on top of not being straight), but they're in the minority, from what I've seen. It looks to me like most people have gotten past the sexual orientation-related problems that dragged them down once they get to be in their mid-to-late twenties (or possibly earlier).

Now, there a whole 'nother group of people in their 40s or 50s or even older, who are wandering around miserably, repressed as can be. And I hate to say it, but I think that most people who go that long without being honest with themselves are never going to be. (Of course there are exceptions). That's the group of people that bothers me the most--sometimes they are extremely homophobic, too. It's even more difficult for them to 'come out' to themselves because the social climate they grew up in was a lot less accepting than it is today. I think a lot of them are bitter as can be. I'm sure they're everywhere, too--it's just that I've only encountered the Louisianans because I've only lived here.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:11 PM
 
25,165 posts, read 47,329,346 times
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I know, that is so unfortunate. They have internalized homophobia; however, if they are able to have kids and then come out...I guess they have the best of both worlds????

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post

Now, there a whole 'nother group of people in their 40s or 50s or even older, who are wandering around miserably, repressed as can be. And I hate to say it, but I think that most people who go that long without being honest with themselves are never going to be. (Of course there are exceptions). That's the group of people that bothers me the most--sometimes they are extremely homophobic, too. It's even more difficult for them to 'come out' to themselves because the social climate they grew up in was a lot less accepting than it is today. I think a lot of them are bitter as can be. I'm sure they're everywhere, too--it's just that I've only encountered the Louisianans because I've only lived here.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:14 PM
 
3,737 posts, read 5,102,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
I know, that is so unfortunate. They have internalized homophobia; however, if they are able to have kids and then come out...I guess they have the best of both worlds????
Oh yeah--I forgot the "internalized homophobia" term. Definitely applies.

I hope that as years pass, fewer and fewer repressed gay people stay that way so long. I can't imagine being married and having children with someone and then finding out that he or she couldn't really be attracted to me "that way" because I'm the wrong sex. I'm not saying they should stay in those relationships and live a lie; I just think it's so tragic to everyone involved and it's just as sad to me that the spouse and children have to go through it.
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