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Old 10-09-2008, 01:59 PM
 
3,755 posts, read 5,115,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
You, as a gay person, have done nothing wrong and are a threat to noone.
I'm not gay. (Sorry, had to say this, since you'd pointed out as much also).
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:04 PM
 
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[MOD CUT/orhaned]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenBo
Discussing whether pedophilia or sociopathic behavior is in-born or learned is a whole separate debate. On top of that, I don't think that anyone here is advocating for acceptance of behaviors that are not between consenting adults. So trying to compare homosexuality to serial killers is completely off-base.
That's not what I was saying. I was simply saying that to say that something is innate is not enough to argue that it be acceptable to society as a whole. As a sexual minority, I'm not comparing myself to serial killers here.

Last edited by Ibginnie; 10-09-2008 at 03:39 PM.. Reason: Quoted orphaned post. Reply would make little sense.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Making an analogy between homosexuals and pedophiles or serial killers is brilliant? Comparing a harmless, consensual activity to nefarious and antisocial behavior is brilliant? I think not and you would have work really hard to persuade me, and I reckon most people, otherwise.

Ironic that 3 individuals, two of whom are probably gay themselves, are supporting the same school of thought that homophobes preach. That is self-defeating to say the least.
Seriously...you didn't understand my post at all? I've explained it in three different places. I think y'all are used to (as am I) reading posts in these forums in which people compare gay people to those who actually harm others, and so you read my post that way out of habit. That's not what I said at all.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:22 PM
 
11,317 posts, read 16,858,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
Seriously...you didn't understand my post at all? I've explained it in three different places. I think y'all are used to (as am I) reading posts in these forums in which people compare gay people to those who actually harm others, and so you read my post that way out of habit. That's not what I said at all.
Well you are welcome to clarify your statements or take another approach. I am all ears.

My apologies for mistaking you as gay- not that there is anything wrong with it.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Well you are welcome to clarify your statements or take another approach. I am all ears.
Okay-this is my attempt at summing up what I said. You can't just say that if and when we prove that people are born gay it will be widely accepted, because people will then ask what else they have to accept on the basis that it is innate and argue that there's no reason to accept anything simply because it is innate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth
My apologies for mistaking you as gay- not that there is anything wrong with it.
It's cool. I explained my identity, and therefore my personal stake in this, I suppose, here, a few posts ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges
I prefer not to have a label applied to myself. I am attracted to people--not a particular sex. Some people call that bisexual. Some people call that pansexual. I think there are other words floating around also. I also identify more with the asexual segment of the population than the majority. Really, the only label I like is the "q" word (which I'm not allowed to use on this forum because it is considered a slur), because it is broad. I think I have as much of a reason as a person who identifies as a homosexual to question why I'm attracted to the same sex.
Anyway, no need to apologize for that; I was just clarifying.
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Okay-this is my attempt at summing up what I said. You can't just say that if and when we prove that people are born gay it will be widely accepted, because people will then ask what else they have to accept on the basis that it is innate and argue that there's no reason to accept anything simply because it is innate.
Well I am not saying that conclusion is a certainty. I merely think there would be a better chance of acceptance. Maybe not. But you would eliminate, for lack of a better word, the "threat" aspect.

As for accepting what is innate, I do not think you have to put everything in one basket. Some things are ultimately benign and we as a society react differently as opossed to other things such as you mentioned.
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:49 PM
 
3,755 posts, read 5,115,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Well I am not saying that conclusion is a certainty. I merely think there would be a better chance of acceptance. Maybe not. But you would eliminate, for lack of a better word, the "threat" aspect.
Some people would be more receptive--I don't doubt that. But I really think that organizations like NARTH, for example, and individuals who follow their line of thinking would continue to argue against it no matter what counterpoints anyone else presents, especially if they're not worded well enough, because if there's nothing else to attack, people talk about semantics.

Quote:
As for accepting what is innate, I do not think you have to put everything in one basket. Some things are ultimately benign and we as a society react differently as opposed to other things such as you mentioned.
Right, and my point is that not everyone will agree with us. That's why I think that it's a bad argument to say "they can't help it; they're born that way." I've used it many times and found it not to be foolproof, because people were quick to attack my wording. That's why I'm saying that when you present an argument like that, you really have to qualify it. Probably safe to say that nothing is okay simply because it is innate.
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Some people would be more receptive--I don't doubt that. But I really think that organizations like NARTH, for example, and individuals who follow their line of thinking would continue to argue against it no matter what counterpoints anyone else presents, especially if they're not worded well enough, because if there's nothing else to attack, people talk about semantics.
You are probably right. But Rome was not built in a day. Cultures change, but over time.


Quote:
Right, and my point is that not everyone will agree with us. That's why I think that it's a bad argument to say "they can't help it; they're born that way." I've used it many times and found it not to be foolproof, because people were quick to attack my wording. That's why I'm saying that when you present an argument like that, you really have to qualify it. Probably safe to say that nothing is okay simply because it is innate.
Sure, but its not so much an argument for acceptance as an opinion as to where it originates- that is the OP after all. As we have all said, nothing has been proven as of yet.

But at the end of the day I personally believe one is born that way. And the sooner we can understand it, the more rational we can be.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:35 PM
 
464 posts, read 1,482,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvislives View Post
I personally think is is a chosen lifestyle and i detest the concept ,so what do you people think? are you born or taught to be like this?
It is a willful decision based on a person wanting the emotional acceptance and emotional comfort from another man because there was a deficiency / void in the persons past that moves a person closer to the same sex. It is primarily emotional comfort one needs from another man with the sexual thrown in to enhance the emotional aspect. There is great hope for the addicted homosexual as thousands have been set free thru intense specialized counselling . One such organization is www.exodusinternational.org which has branches in virtually every major city in the world. There is no need to choose to stay in a dangerous and deviant addiction as this regardless of the comfort and fulfillment that it temporarily gives. The militant form of Homosexuality which demands that the entire society admits homosexuality is a bonified permissable lifestyle , is very wrong in expecting others to be tolerant (apathetic) toward something which brings ruin to individuals, families, and societies . Every civilization where homosexuality was prevalent and condoned, came to ruin. It is important never to support a wrong lifestyle , but at the same time we need to offer hope to the people caught up in it. Regards.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:51 PM
 
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Exodus International? The same group where three former leaders apologized for their part in the ministry? Three leaders who have come to realize that it’s not healthy, nor helpful for families, for gay men and women, or anyone involved? I'm not sure if we can quote statements from articles due to the copywrite rules here but they basically stated how dishonest and dangerous the program was while emphasizing the damage it did to the people they were trying to 'help'.

Former Exodus Leaders Issue Emotional Apology; Statements Highlight the Dangers of Attempting to Change Sexual Orientation (http://www.soulforce.org/article/1275 - broken link)
'Ex-Gay Therapy' Leaders Confess to the Scam (http://www.counterbias.com/908.html - broken link)

Just throwing this out there for a differing point of view on this organization which I truly believe does tons of damage.

Last edited by R.J. MacReady; 10-15-2008 at 08:26 PM.. Reason: added link for apology
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