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View Poll Results: Would you be able to afford to Educate your child under a fully privatized system?
Yes 40 59.70%
No 27 40.30%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-08-2008, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,465,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Basically you want to turn education to what health insurance is today.. and that is a diasaster!!
What you are FAILING TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND REALIZE is, public education in this country IS already a disaster TM -

And remember TM - health insurance is, at least for the moment, VOLUNTARY - as in "optional" as in "not required". Whereas, as you stated, education, at least to a certain extent, is MANDATORY - and the Government has, and is, screwing up a MANDATORY program.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:44 PM
 
372 posts, read 762,722 times
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The best analogy I can come up with is to compare it to feeding our childen. We all can agree that it's beneficial to society to have children fed and educated.

Grocery stores are privately owned, and they are market driven. There are markets for large grocery stores, small niche shops, and discount retailers. Americans feed their children. Those that can't afford to recieve government aide to do so. Charitable organizations like food pantries help as well. Some children grow up eating government cheese, some Kraft singles and others aged brie.

It's likely that market driven schools would provide a great variety as well. Some would be open from 8-4, others perhaps only from 8-noon or noon to 4. Some would offer a great variety or classes, while others specialized in science and math, the arts, trades, etc. Many schools wouldn't offer extracurriculars like sports and theatre, and those that did would be paying directly for it.

There would continue to be haves and have-not's, that's a fact of life. Not everyone eats the same, and not everyone would be educated the same.... but the few would starve, and few would go uneducated.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,131,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasNootz View Post
The best analogy I can come up with is to compare it to feeding our childen. We all can agree that it's beneficial to society to have children fed and educated.

Grocery stores are privately owned, and they are market driven. There are markets for large grocery stores, small niche shops, and discount retailers. Americans feed their children. Those that can't afford to recieve government aide to do so. Charitable organizations like food pantries help as well.

It's likely that market driven schools would provide a great variety as well. Some would be open from 8-4, others perhaps only from 8-noon or noon to 4. Some would offer a great variety or classes, while others specialized in science and math, the arts, trades, etc. Many schools wouldn't offer extracurriculars like sports and theatre, and those that did would be paying directly for it.

There would continue to be haves and have-not's, that's a fact of life. Not everyone eats the same, and not everyone would be educated the same.... but the few would starve, and few would go uneducated.
Food costs are not nearly as cost prohibitive as education and therefore you can not compare.

Yes, if you're poor you get assistance to help you buy groceries. If you don't get food stamps, but don't have a lot of money you may not be able to afford a steak, but you certainly can find $1.00 for a loaf of bread etc. .. With education, it's not as simple as find a few bucks here or there. It's on a completely different level.

What would be available as far as private education is NOT what I have issue with. It's accesability and affordability.. THAT is my problem with it.

But let's talk about specific area of studies that might be available. Do you really think that a child and/or a teenage is in a position to choose one field or area of expertise without getting a complete and rounded out eduction? Those specific areas of study come later when in college , and even then a rounded out set of courses is required for graduation.

right now we don't have ANYONE going uneducated because of a lack of availability or affordability. (only their own self stops them from accessing what is readily available). So why switch to a system that now leaves people out?
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:01 PM
 
372 posts, read 762,722 times
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Health insurance doesn't cost $10,000 per year per child, but you have no problem drawing comparison's there?

It's an analogy.

Once again, the debate is whether or not Americans could afford it... not whether or not it's the best educational system available.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,465,944 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
So why switch to a system that now leaves people out?
That's the point - NO ONE IS saying to "switch" the "system"

This issue is Hypothetical - nothing more!

That said - there are parents - BUNCHES of them - that want to get their kids out of a failed public school system, and put them where they believe their kids can get a better education - some of these schools are private

Now - you will come back with "well, let's fix the Public schools". Great. And, how long will this take TM? 5 years? 10? 20? How long should a parent have to wait for the government to "fix" their children's schools?

What should a parent do in the interim TM? Think about it: You have your child in a FAILING public school? Are you going to just leave them there? OR, are you going to want to perhaps move your child to a better environment?
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,131,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
What you are FAILING TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND REALIZE is, public education in this country IS already a disaster TM -

And remember TM - health insurance is, at least for the moment, VOLUNTARY - as in "optional" as in "not required". Whereas, as you stated, education, at least to a certain extent, is MANDATORY - and the Government has, and is, screwing up a MANDATORY program.
Governemnt is NOT screwing up education.

What is failing education is the lack of parenting at home. We have become a complacent society.

Teachers ar underpaid in a lot of areas of our country.. thereby we may not attact the best candidates for the role of teacher.

Methods on how we teach or children needs to be changed.

No child left behind was meant to have students live up to a standard. That didnt' work becasue all it did was have teachers teach to the test.

So come up with better ways to teach, come up with better ways to measure how a student is doing in school.

If public education is such a failure that would mean our country is a failure.

I acknowledge that there are issues that need to be addressed in education .. but totally privitizing the system will only lead to more uneducated population, more poor people in America due to a lack of education and more on the welfare roles.. all so that some people can profit off of childrens education!!

As for healthcare.. never said it was mandatory and is voluntary. But doesn't change the fact that everyone needs health insurance becasue at some point everyone needs healthcare and healthcare is unaffordable for most. Those who don't have it end up bankrupt to pay for their healthcare. Perhaps health insurance should be mandatory.

but in order for it to be mandatory it needs to be accesable to all, which it's not, so it won't be mandatory.

Education is mandatory and so it needs to be accesable to all and therefore is!

Parents don't like the public schools.. then send their kids to private or homeschool. The option is there for them now!
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:09 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,384,743 times
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If you look at the total spent on school includiong all the expense of running the Dept, Of education and al the sate agencies involved;I havwe little doubt that a vo7ucher program that included allowing any studenrt to go to any school that they want ;would wrok better. Also I would include that if the student gets in trouble and is kicked out thew parent has to get him enroled in another school This would go a long way in making parents more responsiable for there children.There is just too much ploitcics involved in schools whether it be with how they are run;teacher inflencing governament for their own benefit;public administartion of school being too overweight in personell with little responsibltiy and often politcally appointed.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,131,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasNootz View Post
Health insurance doesn't cost $10,000 per year per child, but you have no problem drawing comparison's there?

It's an analogy.

Once again, the debate is whether or not Americans could afford it... not whether or not it's the best educational system available.


Insurance for a family costs around $15,600 / year or around a$1300 for a family plan.. educuating two children could cost approx $15 -0 $20K a year according to some private school tuition numbers out there, plus factoring in the cost of supplies etc.

So education to a $60K a year household at the top of the middle income would be running a family approx 20% of their income a year
You're talking dollars and cents with foods.. I'm talkings costs per families in the thousands for education.



We have the best healthcare in the world because of it 's innovation, yet we have the worst health system in the world because it's not accesable to all it's citizens and we have one of the highest mortality rates of all the developed countries in the world because our healthcare is NOT accesable to many who die as a result!

An educational system that leaves many uneducated because of lack of affordability is hardly the "best educational system".
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:16 PM
 
372 posts, read 762,722 times
Reputation: 126
You'd be talking dollars and cents if you broke the education down to the cost of individual classroom sessions, as you do with your meals.

How much does the average family spend on food per child per year? At $5/day you're near $2,000 per year.

If $10,000 is the amount we want to use as our basis... what is the current percentage paid for by state and national budgets. According to the Natinoal Center for Educational Statistics, 42.8% of school budgets come from local taxes (School taxes). Assuming that national and state government continues to pay the fund the same amount from the general tax base, parents would be responsible for $4,280 per child per year. Factor in the money saved from school property taxes and that number decreases more.

You've already stated that some private schools only cost $5,000 per year.... they'd be even more affordable.

Last edited by DasNootz; 10-08-2008 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,131,477 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasNootz View Post
You'd be talking dollars and cents if you broke the education down to the cost of individual classroom sessions, as you do with your meals.

How much does the average family spend on food per child per year? At $5/day you're near $2,000 per year.

Education still costs twice as much as food.

And you need food to live, so its not like you can cut your food budget to afford education..

Food is a day by day thing. Education is not. You can't say.. I have $5 today in my pocket so I'll go sit in a class today.. Not that anyone should skip meals, but you can't skip a day of classes becauser you didn't have the money to pay for class that day.

So the comparison just doesn't work.
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