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View Poll Results: Would you be able to afford to Educate your child under a fully privatized system?
Yes 40 59.70%
No 27 40.30%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-08-2008, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,398,980 times
Reputation: 4893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Insurance for a family costs around $15,600 / year or around a$1300 for a family plan.. educuating two children could cost approx $15 -0 $20K a year according to some private school tuition numbers out there, plus factoring in the cost of supplies etc.
Where are you getting your numbers from?

I have health insurance - for myself, my wife and my foster daughter. It is a "Cadillac" plan - including dental, vision and more bells and whistles than you can imagine! We pay $8,400 @ year.

We sent our foster daughter to a Private school - $400 @ month ($4,800 @ year).

Heck - I spend more on a trip to Nordstroms than what I pay a year for Insurance!

You need to move if it is that expensive there -
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:05 PM
 
372 posts, read 761,585 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Education still costs twice as much as food.

And you need food to live, so its not like you can cut your food budget to afford education..

Food is a day by day thing. Education is not. You can't say.. I have $5 today in my pocket so I'll go sit in a class today.. Not that anyone should skip meals, but you can't skip a day of classes becauser you didn't have the money to pay for class that day.

So the comparison just doesn't work.
Food is not a day to day thing. You need to feed your child everyday. If you don't, I suspect that Child Protective Services will be knocking at your door shortly.

The mere fact that private schooling could cost you twice as much as feeding your child has nothing to do with whether the comparision works. Both are valued as essential to society.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,835,571 times
Reputation: 3304
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Governemnt is NOT screwing up education.

What is failing education is the lack of parenting at home. We have become a complacent society.

Teachers ar underpaid in a lot of areas of our country.. thereby we may not attact the best candidates for the role of teacher.

Methods on how we teach or children needs to be changed.

No child left behind was meant to have students live up to a standard. That didnt' work becasue all it did was have teachers teach to the test.

So come up with better ways to teach, come up with better ways to measure how a student is doing in school.

If public education is such a failure that would mean our country is a failure.

I acknowledge that there are issues that need to be addressed in education .. but totally privitizing the system will only lead to more uneducated population, more poor people in America due to a lack of education and more on the welfare roles.. all so that some people can profit off of childrens education!!

As for healthcare.. never said it was mandatory and is voluntary. But doesn't change the fact that everyone needs health insurance becasue at some point everyone needs healthcare and healthcare is unaffordable for most. Those who don't have it end up bankrupt to pay for their healthcare. Perhaps health insurance should be mandatory.

but in order for it to be mandatory it needs to be accesable to all, which it's not, so it won't be mandatory.

Education is mandatory and so it needs to be accesable to all and therefore is!

Parents don't like the public schools.. then send their kids to private or homeschool. The option is there for them now!
After claiming that it is not government that is messing up the schools, 3 out of 4 reasons you think schools are failing are directly related to the government that currently runs the schools!! And yet....you don't like any other solution. You see how difficult it is to formulate a response to your posts?

I take it you have never had a class in communication? It is incumbent upon the speaker to make sure the message is understood...not the audience. Several posters have complained that your posts are difficult to follow, that you keep changing the subject etc. All of the posters are not incorrect. We can't read your mind or follow you from one analogy to another only to have you say none of it is relevant. You need to post more clearly if you want people to understand your message and respond with clarity. It isn't about typos.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,118,886 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Where are you getting your numbers from?

I have health insurance - for myself, my wife and my foster daughter. It is a "Cadillac" plan - including dental, vision and more bells and whistles than you can imagine! We pay $8,400 @ year.

We sent our foster daughter to a Private school - $400 @ month ($4,800 @ year).

Heck - I spend more on a trip to Nordstroms than what I pay a year for Insurance!

You need to move if it is that expensive there -

Yes.. it is expensive in my state. We've already established in other threads that states have different plans etc. Mine is blue cross blue shield. My numbers come from shopping around. What I get for cheaper does not offer sufficient drug coverage etc or offers higher deducatables etc. My plan jumped to just under $100/month from last year about 6 months ago to $856.

I am moving and in my new state coverage for me is $333 and for my husband and son it will be $250 so we'll be paying approx $550/month for family coverage.. much better, yes. And now we will be able to afford to insure my husband finally.

And the cost for two children to 3 children would run between 10 - 20K depending on schools, where you are etc. I did say that also includes additional cost for school beyond tuition (supplies, etc)
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,118,886 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
After claiming that it is not government that is messing up the schools, 3 out of 4 reasons you think schools are failing are directly related to the government that currently runs the schools!! And yet....you don't like any other solution. You see how difficult it is to formulate a response to your posts?

I take it you have never had a class in communication? It is incumbent upon the speaker to make sure the message is understood...not the audience. Several posters have complained that your posts are difficult to follow, that you keep changing the subject etc. All of the posters are not incorrect. We can't read your mind or follow you from one analogy to another only to have you say none of it is relevant. You need to post more clearly if you want people to understand your message and respond with clarity. It isn't about typos.

Only 1 of the reasons I posted had anything to do with government policy and that was the No students left behind law... so I don't know where you are getting your 3 out of 4. Its more like 1 out of 4.

But. the REAL reason that schools are not performing where they should be is because of parents, not the schools, not the government, etc. Parents are NOT doing what they need to do with their child at home after schools out ! They are not getting the discipline at home, they are too entranced by TV, media and the internet to want to put all that down and learn. We are NOT engaging the children of this country!

I've mentioned in other threads that the methods we use to teach our kids are outdated! THAT is NOT the fault of government! Teachers need to find new ways to get students interested in education. Kids are not the same as they were 30 years ago, 20 years ago or even when we were in school. Iti s up to the educators IN the schools to change it.

Again.. I point to a study I posted way back in this thread that took the top performing school systems (elementary and secondary) around the world and analyzed what made them so successful. (BTW.. they were all government run and publicly funded) It's important to note that in that study class size did not matter.. small or large. What mattered was the methods used to teach (we teach memorization method and others schools used a different method, which I can't remember what it was called at the moment but it had to do with a more logistical method as opposed to memorization). A very good point in the study was that the results will not be better than the teacher that is teaching.

It is important to note that the principal behind no student left behind was good, but it didn't work. So, now what? Simply change course and come up with a different solution... but don't flush the entire school system down the toilet to adopt another one that will cause more problems, question and issues than what we currently have. You are trading a few fixable issues for a whole other set of bigger issues ! That doesn't make any sense.

You know why private and public schools were found to be of equal performance levels when analyzed in the sudies I've shown? Because the methods used to teach in both the private and public sector are the same.


Public education is NOT a diasaster. It's not perfect and every school in every district needs parental involvement to turn it around. It DOES work. If it didnt' work we wouldn't be the nation we are today.

Funny.. the only two people who complain about not understanding my posts are 2 people who outright don't agree with what I have to say. GreatDay and you have been the only ones who haven't been able to follow along with my posts!

But you know what.. this entire thread is pointless. There will never be a fully privitized education system. It's not even an issue in the campaign !
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,118,886 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
That's the point - NO ONE IS saying to "switch" the "system"

This issue is Hypothetical - nothing more!

That said - there are parents - BUNCHES of them - that want to get their kids out of a failed public school system, and put them where they believe their kids can get a better education - some of these schools are private

Now - you will come back with "well, let's fix the Public schools". Great. And, how long will this take TM? 5 years? 10? 20? How long should a parent have to wait for the government to "fix" their children's schools?

What should a parent do in the interim TM? Think about it: You have your child in a FAILING public school? Are you going to just leave them there? OR, are you going to want to perhaps move your child to a better environment?

if they want to take their kids out of a "failed" (opinion!) public system then they can go ahead and do that.. so why are we having this discussion anyway then!

The option of private school already exists!
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Arkansas
2,383 posts, read 5,400,887 times
Reputation: 1123
I have to put this out there as someone looking to get their Master's in Education, there are not too many teachers that I have come across on the elemn, middle, or high school level that like No Child Left Behind due to our state's Standard's of Learning Tests that are given each year. Most of the teachers I know (and I have 2 kids so I know plenty) feel like they have no time to teach outside of what is required and most feel that if they run out of time to teach a particular lesson, they can never make the lesson up because of how tight their schedule is. There is so much pressure put on these teachers now-a-days it actually has scared me off somewhat. I agree that parents are no longer being parents, but the June Cleaver days are over so teachers have had to step in and become that role model, that second parent. Add all of the legalities as to what can and cannot be said, what can and cannot be asked- teachers have it rough. I guess my point is that often the government comes in and trys to make a better situation and instead, complicates things. Teachers should have some breathing room. I agree with testing and think that it is a good, not great, way to measure students abilities, but there has to be wiggle room available to spend more or less time on a lesson if need be.
The education system in recent years has become dysfunctional and I am hoping that whomever becomes the next president will reform the system.
On the point of the OP, yes, we could afford to pay for private school if need be, but I would prefer not to. Especially at the elementary school level, but we have paid for private tutors and in a one year period spent the same amount on a private tutor that could have put our child through private school for a year.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,398,980 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
if they want to take their kids out of a "failed" (opinion!) public system then they can go ahead and do that.. so why are we having this discussion anyway then!

The option of private school already exists!
We had over 30 schools declared "very deficient" and subject to possible state takeover. Failing TM - not opinion - FACT - government run schools failing - even with parental involvement

Please - give an answer to this question: You, YOU are a parent with a child in one of these failing schools - your child is not getting a good education there - you want to take your child and send them to a good rated private school but, you cannot afford the entire tuition - would you ask for a voucher to help off set the tuition at the private school?
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,321,195 times
Reputation: 10916
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasNootz View Post
Food is not a day to day thing. You need to feed your child everyday. If you don't, I suspect that Child Protective Services will be knocking at your door shortly.

The mere fact that private schooling could cost you twice as much as feeding your child has nothing to do with whether the comparision works. Both are valued as essential to society.
Pfft. I can remember many days when *I* didn't get fed. That's why I'm not picky when it comes to eating today.

If it's on my plate, I'll eat it, no matter how bad it tastes.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,835,571 times
Reputation: 3304
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Only 1 of the reasons I posted had anything to do with government policy and that was the No students left behind law... so I don't know where you are getting your 3 out of 4. Its more like 1 out of 4.

But. the REAL reason that schools are not performing where they should be is because of parents, not the schools, not the government, etc. Parents are NOT doing what they need to do with their child at home after schools out ! They are not getting the discipline at home, they are too entranced by TV, media and the internet to want to put all that down and learn. We are NOT engaging the children of this country!

I've mentioned in other threads that the methods we use to teach our kids are outdated! THAT is NOT the fault of government! Teachers need to find new ways to get students interested in education. Kids are not the same as they were 30 years ago, 20 years ago or even when we were in school. Iti s up to the educators IN the schools to change it.
Wrong. Government sets teacher pay. Government sets standards for hiring teachers. Government dictates what is taught in the classroom. You think teachers really have that much control anymore? They don't. In our district they don't even get to make their own general course schedules or their own tests!! They are cattle wranglers and the students are the cattle!! Every class teaches state mandated curriculum, uses state text books etc. You can take an excellent teacher and make them mediocre under such conditions....and that is 100% government.

The only issue you brought up that is not government controlled is parental involvement. How does that change with a privatized or voucher system? I think it will improve because when you give people real choice, real options as to where they invest education dollars they become invested in the process. You take away their input, their power, their options and they opt out as well.
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