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View Poll Results: Would you be able to afford to Educate your child under a fully privatized system?
Yes 40 59.70%
No 27 40.30%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-09-2008, 09:08 AM
 
148 posts, read 559,489 times
Reputation: 73

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Please - give an answer to this question: You, YOU are a parent with a child in one of these failing schools - your child is not getting a good education there - you want to take your child and send them to a good rated private school but, you cannot afford the entire tuition - would you ask for a voucher to help off set the tuition at the private school?
Oh yes..I would love to have the voucher and I am not seeking a handout. Just give me back my portion of what is supposedly used to educate my children from my taxes. Then, I have a real choice.

As far as "leaving" kids out the system. I do not know, I just do not share the mother Teresa like concerns. If the Government has a way to deal with kids who are left out etc, then great! Not my issue.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Wrong. Government sets teacher pay. Government sets standards for hiring teachers. Government dictates what is taught in the classroom. You think teachers really have that much control anymore? They don't. In our district they don't even get to make their own general course schedules or their own tests!! They are cattle wranglers and the students are the cattle!! Every class teaches state mandated curriculum, uses state text books etc. You can take an excellent teacher and make them mediocre under such conditions....and that is 100% government.


Oh really.. government sets teachers pay? Really.. hmm.. well I would take that up with the teachers union. Maybe government where YOUR from sets teachers pay because maybe in your state they are state employees. On Long Island and in NY State they are not and the teachers union negotiates contracts with the local school boards. OUr teachers happen to be very well paid, which is one of the reasons why it is very competitive here to become a teacher and it's quite hard to actually get a job as a teacher here on LI. It is also one of the reasons our school districts are NOT failing with the acception of 1 in a very poor school district.

What you don't get is teachers DO have a voice..as a lobby group. They haev a problem with the mandated curriculum, they can lobby to have the curriculum changed.. that's what it takes to get things changed. As one teacher posted, the problem is too much to teach in too little time. Perhaps we need to do away with school summer breaks and lengthen the time students are in school to make up some time so that there is more time to teach.

What is the problem.. are students not passing these tests? If they are not passing the tests, then why are they not learning what they need to learn in order to pass the tests? If a school is "failing" it is failign becuase the students are failing the tests.. but why? Does the teacher not have enough time to go over the material needed to learn on the tests. Is it the tests that are the problem? ARe you unhappy with what they are being taught as far as history , math, english etc. etc. etc.! That's not a government problem.. that's a problem between the student and the teacher.

I remember my education being extremely well rounded in all subjects. I also do not remember the material being "easy". Do you want "easy" so students pass? I'm really not understanding the problem here. Why exactly is the school "failing". . . if it's failing it means that the students are not meeting the state mandate. Did the state set the bar too high? Is your student able to pass the mandated tests because he is learning and comprehending the material. If so, then what is the problem.. he is learning what he needs to learn. Or is it that your son or child is not passing as well because the teacher is not able to teach him what he needs to learn for the test?

I took all regents courses and got a regents diploma and I had to work hard and study hard to get it.

The government 'mandate' is set in place to make sure that studetns are being taught what they need to be taught and that education is meeting a MINIMUM standard. That does not mean that parents and teachers can't take it beyond that!

The only issue you brought up that is not government controlled is parental involvement. How does that change with a privatized or voucher system? I think it will improve because when you give people real choice, real options as to where they invest education dollars they become invested in the process. You take away their input, their power, their options and they opt out as well.

What.. so a parent needs to be spending thousands of dollars a year in tuition to become invested? Sorry.. I'm invested in my childs education wether they go to a private school or public school.

In my area the ONLY portion the government is involved in is mandating the curriculum. I don't see a problem with mandating what our students need to learn in school and setting minimum standards and a bar for students to reach.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
We had over 30 schools declared "very deficient" and subject to possible state takeover. Failing TM - not opinion - FACT - government run schools failing - even with parental involvement

Please - give an answer to this question: You, YOU are a parent with a child in one of these failing schools - your child is not getting a good education there - you want to take your child and send them to a good rated private school but, you cannot afford the entire tuition - would you ask for a voucher to help off set the tuition at the private school?
GreatDay ..that would depend on a few things.

Why is the school "deficient" . Is the school deficient because the students in the school are failing the tests that are supposed to reflect what they are supposed to be learning in their curriculum? Why are the students then failing the tests? And is MY child learning the material he needs to learn to take those tests so that he can pass them, which would mean he's learned the material he was taught in regards to math, english , history etc.

It has been awhile since I was in school. My son is not yet in school. But, from what i remember of my education it was very well rounded. I took regents courses, which was the next step up from the minimum, but was not college acredited AP classes. I remember those regents exams being very tough. I had to study hard to pass them, and I did with good grades. There was a lot of material covered. Actually world history was a 2 year course that at the end of the second sophmore year we were given a state regents exam on everything we learned in those two years. I was sweating bullets and it was a lot of work. Then there was the sequential math regents, U.S History regents, english regents covering some great literature we had to read as well as grammar, etc. And then the spanish state regents exams (most of my language requirements were waved as i was allowed to substitute my credits in the arts for this, as I went to a performing arts H.S part time through the Nassau Boces program). All in all, I worked my tail off, got good grades, graduated with my regents diploma.

So.. I'm not understanding what the real problem is. Is the bar set too high on the curriculum and teachers are not able to meet it and pass the tests. WHY is the school considered a "failure"?

What I'd be concerned with is the curriculum. Is my child getting a full rounded education. The way I'd know that isby helping him with his studies. And is he doing well on all his exams, tests, etc. If he is, but a majority of the students aren't, then why is my son able to do well and the other kids aren't. If EVERY student in that school is not passing the mandated state exams on the curriculum, then I need to ask why they are not learning the material. Are the teachers not competent or is it that there is not enough time in the day to learn the materials that they need to learn.

My answer is, if I am satisfied that my son is being taught a well rounded curriculum like I had been taught and he is doing the work and getting good grades, then I have no problem with the school irregardless if other students aren't doing as well. If the curriculum being taught is not well rounded, then I will have a problem with the state mandated curriculum.

And.. if there is a problem with the curriculum is not the private schools required to meet the state standards as well?
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvcgal View Post
I have to put this out there as someone looking to get their Master's in Education, there are not too many teachers that I have come across on the elemn, middle, or high school level that like No Child Left Behind due to our state's Standard's of Learning Tests that are given each year. Most of the teachers I know (and I have 2 kids so I know plenty) feel like they have no time to teach outside of what is required and most feel that if they run out of time to teach a particular lesson, they can never make the lesson up because of how tight their schedule is. There is so much pressure put on these teachers now-a-days it actually has scared me off somewhat. I agree that parents are no longer being parents, but the June Cleaver days are over so teachers have had to step in and become that role model, that second parent. Add all of the legalities as to what can and cannot be said, what can and cannot be asked- teachers have it rough. I guess my point is that often the government comes in and trys to make a better situation and instead, complicates things. Teachers should have some breathing room. I agree with testing and think that it is a good, not great, way to measure students abilities, but there has to be wiggle room available to spend more or less time on a lesson if need be.
The education system in recent years has become dysfunctional and I am hoping that whomever becomes the next president will reform the system.
On the point of the OP, yes, we could afford to pay for private school if need be, but I would prefer not to. Especially at the elementary school level, but we have paid for private tutors and in a one year period spent the same amount on a private tutor that could have put our child through private school for a year.

Hi,
Thank you for your post. As a teacher, can I ask you a couple of questions?

I'm not fully understanding what makes a school a "failure". I'm assuming its because students aren't meeting the standards set by the state. In other words, they are not doing well on the tests on the curriculum that they are being taught.

I'm getting from your posts that the curriculum is .. well there is a lot of stuff in there to learn ( a good thing, I think) but that there is time constraints issues. So perhaps it would be a good idea to extend school time or the school year.. shorten summer vacation or things of that nature.

If students are not meeting the standards are the standards too high? If there is a school where the majority aren't meeting the standards, but others in the school are, to me that means that the students that ARE passing were paying attention, learning and so they were being taught because they did well on the tests and knew the material.

Is it the curriculum that is the problem?

Looking forward to your answers!

Last edited by TristansMommy; 10-09-2008 at 06:17 PM..
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:31 AM
Status: "Done with the 100s (hopefully)?" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
5,411 posts, read 8,295,751 times
Reputation: 5760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
We had over 30 schools declared "very deficient" and subject to possible state takeover. Failing TM - not opinion - FACT - government run schools failing - even with parental involvement
That's true about the deficient level of these public schools. I saw an article about this the other day:
20 failing Ariz. schools face state action

What I can't understand is how anybody thinks the state could possibly improve these failing public schools. That's basically taking control from the local district level, and putting larger government in control. We all have seen evidence that more government is not the solution to our problems (as President Reagan rightfully stated in his inaugural address). In fact, the OPPOSITE should be happening with these schools. They need to be turned over to a private entity that can improve them with the means of venture capital, individual contributions, and competition.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:41 AM
 
Location: united state,alexandria va
1 posts, read 985 times
Reputation: 10
heloo freind this is not a reply i will to know....what will happen if american were required to pay tution for all children
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
if you go voucher (government subsidized program) i would be overjoyed. they are not getting an education now. they and the teachers are being subjected to grave physical dangers. many assaults some sexual are unreported. i am not talking about little children only i am talking about teachers.
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