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At a time when we're discussing how companies are cutting back on healthcare becasue of the costs per employee and benefits are being cut you're suggesting that companies that people work for subsidize or offer as a benefit to subsidize their employees education?
Most of the employers in the U.S these days are small businesses, who are struggling to afford health insurance benefits for their employees. Other companies are taking their jobs offshore to foreign countries.
As for school by "charity"... America's largest charity managed to raise 5 million in one year (the American Red Cross). 5 milllion is not enough to help educate or subsidize private education for over 50 million plus kids.
What happens in years of economic struggle when charities do not bring in enough due to the belt tightening (which is happening this year!). Do we then say "sorry kids, no school this year. We didn't recieve enough charity to help pay for your tuition".
THis argument was brought up and argued many pages back.
I think you're off by a factor of 1,000.
The American Red Cross's budget in 2006 was over 5.8 BILLION. That type of charitable giving would go a long way to helping subsidize private education for those that couldn't afford to pay a portion or all of the bill. Charity Navigator Rating - American Red Cross
Once again, I'm not stating I'm for or against privatization. Only that the American population would find away to make it affordable for nearly all if not all.
The American Red Cross's budget in 2006 was over 5.8 BILLION. That type of charitable giving would go a long way to helping subsidize private education for those that couldn't afford to pay a portion or all of the bill. Charity Navigator Rating - American Red Cross
Once again, I'm not stating I'm for or against privatization. Only that the American population would find away to make it affordable for nearly all if not all.
Yes. I was off. My original post on the subject was right and when I posted it again I misposted but corrected it in my most recent post.
and again.. your last statemetn is a matter of opinion and not a guaranteed fact. Too big of a gamble to take on the education of the future generations of Americans, which is then a huge gamble with the future of this country.
BTW.. if making it affordable for "all " is really such a possiblity, then how come we haven't been able to achieve that with healthcare and heath insurance?
BTW.. if making it affordable for "all " is really such a possiblity, then how come we haven't been able to achieve that with healthcare and heath insurance?
Might I suggest that you refrain from CONTINUALLY bringing up health-care / health insurance in this thread? Each time you do - and each time someone responds, you rail against THEM for bringing it up -
Might I suggest that you refrain from CONTINUALLY bringing up health-care / health insurance in this thread? Each time you do - and each time someone responds, you rail against THEM for bringing it up -
I bring it up because it's a needed comparison on "competition" and the limits of "competition" regionally. They argue that privitization would drive cost down as compeition is opened. However, in speaking in competition I need to point out a currently existing parallel as far as privitization is concerned. . so it is relevent.
I didn't get any further into the debate with semantics, as she had. But then again, she raises another good point. If you then privatize you'll have the same arguments about "affordability" that you have with health insurance which becomes a headache. Who is saying they can and who is saying they can't? How involved will the government then have to be inyour financial affairs, ie monitoring your purchases, to determine that? It opens up another can of worms that adds just another complicated layer to the issue.. so i guess I'm glad she DID bring it up.. because it further complicates a privitization issue.
And he talks about American's finding a "way" to make it affordable.. and thefact that we can't even do that with something as important as health care and health insurance is just another way to highlight that it's not as simple as he things or makes it to be.
Yes. I was off. My original post on the subject was right and when I posted it again I misposted but corrected it in my most recent post.
and again.. your last statemetn is a matter of opinion and not a guaranteed fact. Too big of a gamble to take on the education of the future generations of Americans, which is then a huge gamble with the future of this country.
BTW.. if making it affordable for "all " is really such a possiblity, then how come we haven't been able to achieve that with healthcare and heath insurance?
THIS ENTIRE TOPIC IS OPINION... WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT? You're asking about a hypothetical question. None of us has a crystal ball, and if we did we wouldn't be wasting our time discussing this matter on CD.
If I'm not mistaken, both candidates last night discussed their views on how to help Americans afford private health care. Yet another example of how Americans come up with ways to make it affordable. I didn't see either candidate asking to make all hospitals publically owned and operated.
Might I suggest that you refrain from CONTINUALLY bringing up health-care / health insurance in this thread? Each time you do - and each time someone responds, you rail against THEM for bringing it up -
And the same is true discussing college and post graduate degrees as well. AFTER she brings up secondary education she says that's not what she is talking about, AFTER she brings up health care and I generalized as to why government involvement can make it easy to claim a 'crisis' she goes ranting that it is a topic for another thread.
I still can't figure out why it matters how much the Red Cross raises if she doesn't want The Red Cross funding private education.
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Yes. I was off. My original post on the subject was right and when I posted it again I misposted but corrected it in my most recent post.
I think she thinks she knows what she is talking about....I happen to disagree and use the above quote as evidence.
I bring it up because it's a needed comparison on "competition" and the limits of "competition" regionally. They argue that privitization would drive cost down as compeition is opened. However, in speaking in competition I need to point out a currently existing parallel as far as privitization is concerned. . so it is relevent.
I disagree with you - there is NO COMPARISON to be made. Reason? Health insurance is already privatized. For the most part, Education is government run.
If you HONESTLY want to compare, then it would be a FAIR comparison to say that if Health Insurance is government run, it would as much of a disaster as public education is today!
Education is a separate issue from health insurance.
THIS ENTIRE TOPIC IS OPINION... WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT? You're asking about a hypothetical question. None of us has a crystal ball, and if we did we wouldn't be wasting our time discussing this matter on CD.
If I'm not mistaken, both candidates last night discussed their views on how to help Americans afford private health care. Yet another example of how Americans come up with ways to make it affordable. I didn't see either candidate asking to make all hospitals publically owned and operated.
One candidate came up with a way to make healthcare more affordable. The other one just masked it and didn't address driving down the cost of it. And even what that candidate came up with will not guarantee that everyone can and will. However, it is important to note that with healthcare we are working from the complete opposite direction as education. If U.S already had a way that guarantees every American Health Care or affordability of Health Care and health insurance.. then the talk of privitizing it would then turn around and present the problems we have with healthcare today...
Two different problems on the same track from opposite directions.. that's my point.
Education is already a guarantee. There is no one that falls through because they can't afford elementary and secondary education. (if they fall through they fall through because the fail to access what is there for them). Taking that away then opens up for huge problems with affordability, guaranteeing everyone has that mandatory education.. not knowing who is abusing the system to get education paid for and who isn't ..etc etc. etc.
Privitizing education will create yet another entitlement program that everyone is going to whine about later on and will cost more federal tax dollars to maintain.
I disagree with you - there is NO COMPARISON to be made. Reason? Health insurance is already privatized. For the most part, Education is government run.
If you HONESTLY want to compare, then it would be a FAIR comparison to say that if Health Insurance is government run, it would as much of a disaster as public education is today!
Education is a separate issue from health insurance.
LOL.. okay.. GreatDay.. Health insurance and Edcuation are on the same track from opposite directions.
One is privitized (health insurance) but regulated at state levels.. in the sense that it can not be taken across state lines. Therefore health insurance is run by private for profit companies, is NOT accesable and affordable to all and is NOT guaranteed for every American.. but is neccesary.
Education is government run on local levels IS not privatized but is guaranteed to every American citizen, has no accesability issue or affordability issues for familes (ie; lack of education because you can not afford it).
NOw .. you want to take something that is already guaranteed to every citizen , an education, put it into the hands of privitization which affords NO guarantees and turning it into something similar to what our healt insurance system is today.. education for profit for those that are lucky enough to afford it!
Oh.. and to further the comparison.. Medicaid, which is health insurance for those that can not afford health insurance, is an "entitlement" program that people want to cut, do away with and everyone screams a lot of people don't deserve. So now.. you want to take education, privitize it and then have some sort of government subsidary ala medicaid, to cover those that can't afford education.. creating yet another entitlement program that everyone can whine about later!
And , btw, with medicaid (and i should add medicare) or Governmnet subsidized health care , you still can't guarantee every American Citizen affordable and accesable health insurance / health care!
So.. by privitizing you are taking education in the opposite direction and putting it into the same type of system our health insurance industry is in today! Cause remember, secondary and elementary educations can not compete across state lines.. and is even MORE confined than any health insurance programs availalbe to "shop around" in any state.
Basically you want to turn education to what health insurance is today.. and that is a diasaster!!
Last edited by TristansMommy; 10-08-2008 at 12:40 PM..
And the same is true discussing college and post graduate degrees as well. AFTER she brings up secondary education she says that's not what she is talking about, AFTER she brings up health care and I generalized as to why government involvement can make it easy to claim a 'crisis' she goes ranting that it is a topic for another thread.
I still can't figure out why it matters how much the Red Cross raises if she doesn't want The Red Cross funding private education.
I think she thinks she knows what she is talking about....I happen to disagree and use the above quote as evidence.
[MOD CUT]
THE BIGGEST CHARITY MANAGED TO RAISE 5 BILLION DOLLARS.. THAT IS THE MOST A CHARITY IN THE U.S HAS RAISED IN ANY GIVEN YEAR.
NOW.. IF EDUCATION BECOMES A BIG CHARITY, PERHAPS EDUCATIO MAY MEET OR SURPASS THAT NUMBER.. BUT LETS JUST SAY THAT EDUCATION AS A CHARITY MATCHES THAT NUMBER. 5 BILLION IS NOT ENOUGH TO SUBSIDIZE EDUCATION FOR THOSE THAT CAN'T AFFORD IT!
Last edited by Ibginnie; 10-08-2008 at 02:47 PM..
Reason: address points not other posters
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