U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-26-2008, 01:18 PM
 
485 posts, read 1,627,866 times
Reputation: 383

Advertisements

As I see here in my private office at work, looking at my last paycheck stub I feel lucky. It is sure nice to have my own office and the ability to do interesting work for a very good paycheck. I am extremely intelligent and talented (according to all my employers), so getting my great job and training for it was really easy. In the world of work, I have been really lucky.

On the other hand, I have some old friends from High School who are not as talented and intelligent. Or did they go for additional training or college after they graduated from High School. They are all making less than $10.00 an hour to do some of the dirtiest nastiest jobs in our society. If they were looking for ideas for the television show "Dirty Jobs" my friends would be great candidates. Dirty Jobs : Discovery Channel

All of them are quite bitter with how poorly they are paid and their lot in life. All of them are Fathers and do not have the time to go back to school to learn a new trade, so they will be doing their dirty ugly boring jobs until they retire. Many work two jobs to survive.

Should society put more attention on these people and pay them more just because their work is so dirty ugly and nasty?

I write this from the comfort of my air conditioned office making three times what they do for playing with the Internet.

(I also make my employer lots of money through my talent as a Management Consutant and Trainer. )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-26-2008, 01:23 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,081,229 times
Reputation: 2007
Well, the wage system should be abolished first of all. People should be payed based on how good of a worker they are. A janitor who gets a bathroom sparkling clean is a hero in my book (Just think of how many germs there would be in bathrooms without janitors.) and deserves more than a crappy $10 an hour.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 02:01 PM
 
54 posts, read 80,486 times
Reputation: 33
Abolish the wage system? I assume you mean the minimum wage since that's the only 'system' in place.

As to the op; The short answer is NO. Wages are paid of the basis of what the market requires; if no one will clean the bathroom for $10 then we'll pay $15,or $20 offering more until we get a taker. So I finally hire Joe for $25 /hr and 2 weeks later John (the Entrepreneur) offers to clean it by contract for $15- see ya Joe! BTW Joe, John does in fact have a job opening in your field for $12/hr.

As for myself, been there done that. I found the time and the stamina to move beyond menial labor. Mostly because I like T-bone steaks better than ground beef and chicken. Some of the jobs were actually far better than my chosen career turned out to be- but the wages were abysmal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,081,229 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
Abolish the wage system? I assume you mean the minimum wage since that's the only 'system' in place.
No, by wage system, I mean being payed by the hour, day, week, etc. You should be payed based on how good of a worker you are. Everybody should benefit from their own hard work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 02:49 PM
 
54 posts, read 80,486 times
Reputation: 33
Question Slightly confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
No, by wage system, I mean being payed by the hour, day, week, etc. You should be payed based on how good of a worker you are. Everybody should benefit from their own hard work.
I absolutely agree that one should benefit from their own hard work!

But I have to admit to being slightly confused . Who determines the value of your labor and how good a worker you are? I think we may be talking semantics here. To my way of thinking, a wage system is how we are remunerated for our labor and pay by the hour/week/day is simply how we determine the unit paid for. And someone has to decide how much our labor is worth. If you believe your labor is worth $100 for a ?Unit? and I believe it's only worth $25 then I won't hire you.................... If you are a farmer then you raise a crop and sell it- the market determines the value of your crop and therefore your labor.

Please clarify if you viewpoint is different. P
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 02:59 PM
 
485 posts, read 1,627,866 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
No, by wage system, I mean being payed by the hour, day, week, etc. You should be payed based on how good of a worker you are. Everybody should benefit from their own hard work.
I use to work in Human Resources and I oversaw the performance appraisal system and rarely saw much honesty or logic in managers appraisal of workers. So, one persons' genius is another persons idiot. Because of this there is no way someone can honestly say that people can be paid by the job. It has to be via a mixture of work quality and supply and demand. Finally most pay is based on what the individual makes or saves an organization.

I am paid lots of money becuase my expertise allows my company to make even more money from my efforts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,113,603 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
As I see here in my private office at work, looking at my last paycheck stub I feel lucky. It is sure nice to have my own office and the ability to do interesting work for a very good paycheck. I am extremely intelligent and talented (according to all my employers), so getting my great job and training for it was really easy. In the world of work, I have been really lucky.

On the other hand, I have some old friends from High School who are not as talented and intelligent. Or did they go for additional training or college after they graduated from High School. They are all making less than $10.00 an hour to do some of the dirtiest nastiest jobs in our society. If they were looking for ideas for the television show "Dirty Jobs" my friends would be great candidates. Dirty Jobs : Discovery Channel

All of them are quite bitter with how poorly they are paid and their lot in life. All of them are Fathers and do not have the time to go back to school to learn a new trade, so they will be doing their dirty ugly boring jobs until they retire. Many work two jobs to survive.

Should society put more attention on these people and pay them more just because their work is so dirty ugly and nasty?

I write this from the comfort of my air conditioned office making three times what they do for playing with the Internet.

(I also make my employer lots of money through my talent as a Management Consutant and Trainer. )

That's a hard question to answer.. and I don't really know what that answer is.

I do, however, feel that they deserve a lot more respect from society then they get.

For example, they obviously don't make a lot of money and will never be "rich ' or "well to do"... so many people who have complain about those that do not have should "better"themselves... they call them lazy.. well many more names.

The chastise them for not being able to afford simple things like health insrurance, or save for retirement..

sometimes in life, how hard you work does not always equal how much money you have..

I think to dismiss them and say " wel they should better themselves " is just horrible..

If these people work hard, but have hard time getting somethign like health care.. instead of saying that they are lazy for not having a higher paying job.. they should be willing to help or atleast undrestand.. after all they are doing the jobs you wouldn't, couldn't nor would you want to ever do and they are just as valuable to society as anyone else is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 03:47 PM
 
485 posts, read 1,627,866 times
Reputation: 383
The jobs they do make civilized life more bearable for the rest of us. So those that say they should just get training so they can get a new job, are missing the point. A large number of Americans have to do these jobs and as a result a large percentage of our population are going to live a live of career misery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 04:03 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,081,229 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
I absolutely agree that one should benefit from their own hard work!

But I have to admit to being slightly confused . Who determines the value of your labor and how good a worker you are? I think we may be talking semantics here. To my way of thinking, a wage system is how we are remunerated for our labor and pay by the hour/week/day is simply how we determine the unit paid for. And someone has to decide how much our labor is worth. If you believe your labor is worth $100 for a ?Unit? and I believe it's only worth $25 then I won't hire you.................... If you are a farmer then you raise a crop and sell it- the market determines the value of your crop and therefore your labor.

Please clarify if you viewpoint is different. P
I agree with you. That is the point where our wonderful (sarcasm) government has to get involved. The problem is, the government thinks it's their job to regulate every single thing. Their power must be limited in order for such a thing to even be possible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2008, 10:21 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,832,743 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
The jobs they do make civilized life more bearable for the rest of us. So those that say they should just get training so they can get a new job, are missing the point. A large number of Americans have to do these jobs and as a result a large percentage of our population are going to live a live of career misery.
you have to be careful with that last part though. because one man's trash is another man's treasure. some of those 'miserable' jobs are actually quite fun to some people.

my mom studied psych in college, but is she a counselor? no. a physician? no. what is she? a nurseryman (woman). why? because she likes the menial, hard, hot, tedious labor of landscaping.

a guy i know in the marine corps: has a degree in english literature, is one of the brightest people i know, and one of the most charismatic leaders i've ever met. he could go on to do whatever he wanted in life, seminars, write books, screen writing, whatever. instead, he joined the usmc to become a grunt, because he wanted to hump up and down the mountains of afghanistan with a full combat load--for the helluvit. that's what is making him happy. he still reads more than about anyone i know, debates anything and everything, and is still as sharp and competitive as he could be.

some people have a passion for mechanics, or plumbing, or even cleaning, and many of them are waaaay better at their profession than those white-collar workers who look down on them from their 35th-floor offices and their h3 hummers.

it takes all types.

aaron out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top