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Old 10-01-2008, 02:20 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvislives View Post
Or you can read the stats count the numbers and face the fact that America does in fact lead the world in serial and mass murders..
You miss the point -- you fail to put statistics in context. A country with no law enforcement to speak of can report that it has zero murders, but that statistic will not reflect the facts accurately. A higher statistic is not only the function of the absolute number of violent crimes, but of a whole host of other factors -- including the given country's success in identifying perpetrators, pursuing cold cases, and investigating serial crimes as their own class. And then, some countries without freedom-of-information laws may simply underreport their statistics. Or, do you honestly believe there are no serial killers in Somalia?

Your arguments remind me of a remark I read once by "Mickey Z" (if memory serves), something to the effect that a country with as many rape crisis centers as the US is really evil -- or something like that. Well, guess what? There are no rape crisis centers in Sudan. I guess there is no rape there, then, huh?
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,266,772 times
Reputation: 10915
maybe it has something to do with the "roving" spirit of too many Americans--as far as serial killers go.

I believe people in other countries aren't as apt to move around as most Americans.
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:31 PM
 
3,367 posts, read 9,864,575 times
Reputation: 4148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
You miss the point -- you fail to put statistics in context. A country with no law enforcement to speak of can report that it has zero murders, but that statistic will not reflect the facts accurately. A higher statistic is not only the function of the absolute number of violent crimes, but of a whole host of other factors -- including the given country's success in identifying perpetrators, pursuing cold cases, and investigating serial crimes as their own class. And then, some countries without freedom-of-information laws may simply underreport their statistics. Or, do you honestly believe there are no serial killers in Somalia?

Your arguments remind me of a remark I read once by "Mickey Z" (if memory serves), something to the effect that a country with as many rape crisis centers as the US is really evil -- or something like that. Well, guess what? There are no rape crisis centers in Sudan. I guess there is no rape there, then, huh?
But the USA is still ahead in the statistics when you compare it with other leading 'developed' countries that DO have similar levels of crime reporting, forensics, rape crisis centers etc.

So how do we explain - when comparing apples with apples - that the USA is still worse?
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:13 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by southdown View Post
So how do we explain - when comparing apples with apples - that the USA is still worse?
It's a bigger and more populous country than many of those "developed" nations, for one. It is also a country where wrong-doers enjoy extraordinary legal protections, even by standards of liberal democracies -- and thus those wrong-doers must commit many more mistakes (which often translates into many more crimes) in order to enable the State to put them away, than they would in, say, France. I think it would also be an error to assume that just because a country is "developed", it is reporting crime statistics to the public accurately. Just looking at Russia's list of serial killers on Wikipedia, I can tell you with certainty that there is no way -- NO WAY -- that list is anywhere near exhaustive. But Russia is a "developed" country -- wouldn't you agree? Some countries, for whatever reason, simply do not put serial killers in their own category; hence they have "zero" serial killers statistically, though not practically. Again, the statistic of each country must be looked at in context. Simply assuming the US has a more violent society in order to ask why it is more violent makes it a rhetorical question.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,203 posts, read 49,753,916 times
Reputation: 66975
First of all, I don't think reporting of crime in third world countries is very accurate. So you have to just throw all those countries out.

Then you have to ask yourself if there are any other first world countries that even begin to approach our population size and demographic mix.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:19 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by elvislives
Quote:
16 years olds cannot buy a weapon in america...and they cannot legally carry either...
Then your American gun lobbyist are sleeping on the job.
If the Finns can Americans should be able too.
I mean y'all carry guns to protect yourselves right?
By your American logic the student massacres could've been simply prevented by allowing the students to carry guns to school.
Right?
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:23 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
extremely disfunctional judicial system coupled with the criminalization of self defense and free reign on personal injury law suits while in the commission of a crime. fix that and it will all go away. if you look at stats 50 years ago, shooting criminals dead while in the commission of a crime makes jails and courts empty.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:38 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
Quote:
if you look at stats 50 years ago, shooting criminals dead while in the commission of a crime makes jails and courts empty.
It also happens to be the main reason why the blacks never dared to revolt against their 'master'.*
Every black American who owned a gun was in direct violation of the law so it was perfectly normal to shoot armed blacks on sight.


Quote:
* Georgia's Gun Laws -- Racism, Oppression and White Supremacy
Georgia's gun laws were designed to disarm slaves, freedmen, and black
Georgians. Whenever blacks used arms to fight against racism and discrimination,
the General Assembly responded with laws criminalizing their actions. Georgia's
gun laws were not a crime prevention measure; they were Georgia's way to
perpetuate racism, oppression and white supremacy. These racist laws still apply
in Georgia.
Source: http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/wp-c...a-gun-laws.pdf
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:52 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,079,123 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by elvislives Then your American gun lobbyist are sleeping on the job.
If the Finns can Americans should be able too.
I mean y'all carry guns to protect yourselves right?
By your American logic the student massacres could've been simply prevented by allowing the students to carry guns to school.
Right?
If you lived here, you would know that most shootings have in fact happened in states where people aren't allowed to carry guns legally. Most mass murders have happened in areas where guns aren't allowed. Don't act as if it's just an American line of thinking. If you live here and observe it yourself, it's common sense.
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,680,569 times
Reputation: 388
I have been directly involved in a situation where a disgrunteled employee came to work and shot 7 people killing 4 outright.I held a friend of mines hand as she lay dying on the floor with bullets pinging off the concrete above my head,so i have put quite a bit of thought into this topic.....http://chronicle.augusta.com/wisetrial/ (broken link)
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